After watching the Spurs beat up on the Jazz the first half of Game 1, it got me thinking. Why on earth didn't JVG play zone? I was harping it before the series and was so confident JVG's smart enough to mix it in but it didn't happen once in the entire series! I don't think Utah scored ONCE against the matchup zone SA deployed in the first half. That allowed them to mess up Utah's offensive rhythm and extend the lead. There's no creativity on JVG's defense. After us get back picked to death, we continue to play the same defensive sets over and over again. After the series is over, players like T-Mac are saying we got out executed on offense. It it really them executing us or our defense not countering with zone plays? My question is this: Why didn't we mix in some zone against Utah? Is it because we don't have the personnel for it or there's no creativity/stubborness on Defense on JVG's part?
JVG has like 2 defensive sets, and does not change them. The Spurs change between their match-up zone (i totally think we can run this if we get a real PF) and their man def, every few plays. Big difference though, Both Jazz and Spurs are two of the best teams at Ball Pressure & Ball Denial. Those seem like small things, but they are huge to stop passes into the post (prior) and stopping cutters (latter). You can actually see the Jazz not do that well in the 1st half and the Spurs then play off in the 2nd half. The Rockets rarely do that well. Rafer, Hayes, & Head sometimes on the perimeter make efforts to do that. I know we did play great defense, but when you do not change anything about it ir mix it up, of course teams will figure it out by the 8th game.
You and the whole GARM are wondering why he didn't make some adjustment in the Jazz series either play zone, bring Yao out high to guard Okur when Boozer started dominating Yao with his quickness. JVG is a better than average coach maybe top five but his one weakness was creativity on both sides of the ball and making adjustments which can be a killer in a 7 game series.
Another good thread. Jeff is known form playing man to man defense. I saw only a few miutes when we were playin' zone last season. Well when the Spurs killed the Jazz with their zone I think. Why? That's easy. When you are playing zone that leaves a lot space on the perimeter. Sa you know Jazz isn't a team who will kill you with their 3-pointers. So zone is great weapon for teams like Jazz maybe Atlanta. But you cannot play that defense against Spurs Mavs Suns I mean against teams whitch has a great 3-point shooters. In my opinion zone would really help us in that series cause Jazz are a penetrating team.
JVG is religiously anti-zone. He is an extremely grounded basketball coach with very strict beliefs on what it means to play basketball "the right way". That is a good or bad thing depending on the situation. His insistence on Yao being dedicated to the low block is a major factor in how Yao developed his game and worked through his struggles with physical defenders. Jeff does not easily bend his system to match his players, but that's because he doesn't believe that allowing players like Iverson, Carmelo, Marbury, Francis, etc to just do what they like to do will lead to postseason success. There is a lot of truth in that. The downside is, that means that he's slow to adjust in the present for fear that it will lead the roster "down the dark path." He'd sooner lose "playing the right way" than win an extra game or series by temporarily switching to something "easier." There's credence in his approach, it's admirable to an extent, but it's true that we weren't going to get a handle on Boozer without doubling or going zone, which wasn't going to happen. A non-JVG example of what I'm describing is Phil Jackson forcing the triangle on all of his teams. Maybe he could alter the offense to better cater to Kobe (and today he does more than he wants to), but Phil is convinced that the taking lumps while learning the triangle is worth it in the end. Take note of the number of high profile guys that never did get it and didn't last long with him (Malone, Glen Rice, etc). Evan * - note: quotes are used when describing something from the JVG perspective, not necc my own.
IMO it's a leap of faith to think VG using a zone against Utah would have altered the results significantly. First, VG's man to man uses absolute zone principles...soft trap dribble penetration and protect the paint. From that aspect, there's not much difference. Secondly, the Spurs are much quicker at every position. If they find themselves out of either defensive OR rebounding position, they can recover more quickly. It's a major assumption to assume the slower Rockets would have identical success. I've got alot of issues with VG...but I'll exclude zones which have lots of seams for dribble penetration and create gaps for offensive rebounders to take advantage of.
good call. It is a man to man defense, but its also a teamwide defense. i think the zone argument is overstated. Grab a rebound, make a shot and pick up your man in transition...thats what cost the game. No need to over analyze.
I'm not saying they will have the same success as the Spurs. But how do you really know how much success unless JVG tries it? That's the problem, if you don't adjust, you will never ever know. We might be not as long and as quick as SA, but our smalls plays the passing lanes really well. And guys like Battier and Hayes clog up the lane by drawing the charge when they attack the rim. Even though Yao was destroyed by Boozer by facing the basket, he's pretty decent at intimidating inside with his height. I do know his defense is based on zone principals but it's still more man to man. You can still get picked on a screen because you are for the most part holding your man. On pure zones, there's no way in hell you can get picked no matter where you're at.
That's the beauty of a zone. You don't have 1 person the burden to try stop him. He definitely can't face up and dribble drive on a zone in the interior if we play zone (That's how he's been killing us). He won't have as much room to operate because there will be help from the left right and back if he try to dribble drive.
Go back and look at tapes/DVD's of the regular season. VG tried it. For whatever marginal upside it may have had, the Rockets got killed on the boards. As far as playing the passing lanes, if you don't see the speed and arm length difference between Duncan, Horry, Elson and Bowen vs Yao, Hayes, Howard and Battier...we'll have to agree to disagree. The bottomline is easy to me. On the perimeter, Deron Williams is going to blast past Alston, Head or McGrady whether the defense is zone or man. Once inside that level he has multiple options...stop and pop, finish at the rim or drive and dish. He can do this regardless of anyone playing a passing lane. And further, a zone to be effective has to be packed in. This opens up Okur as wide open as he can be. Parker and Ginobili and probably Finley are just much better 1on1 perimeter defenders. That's the reason for any success. The real test of your theory (since Utah came back strong in the second half) would be if Popovich continues to use it. I for one have my doubts.
a zone defense is our teams only chance to use yao's size on defense instead of abusing yao's lack of quickness. every teams knows to run P&R against yao. he can't keep up. he picks up fouls. let him sit back in a zone and just worry about protecting the basket.
Exactly! JVG just let it be and defend it one way and continue to get raped. When things don't work one way, you gotta try something else. I guess he's one dimensional like the rest of our team. Players have the same mentality of "All I've been doing is jack up 3's and never shoot midrange or attack the basket all year...why not start now, Lets continue to shoot contested 3's with their hands in our faces".
There was help defense on the dribble penetration, too bad it was either a 6'6 guy giving up 3 inches and 30 pounds to Boozer, a 6'8 guy giving up 40 pounds who had no option but to take the charge and/or, heaven forbid, Juwan friggen Howard taking on a charging Boozer. This isin't a zone or man-to-man issue, its a personnel issue, one we'll have to deal with until we get a solid PF. Athletic PFs with an outside shot always seem to get career highs in points against the Rockets (see: Carlos Boozer/Amare Stoudemire/Elton Brand)
good points. Zone may be able to work in spots and with different personnel but Yao is going to have to be able to play man to man defense. Remember...this is still the NBA!
How? If he's prevented from facing up or dribble-driving, it's because someone stopped him. Name the player or describe the double team on the Rockets' current roster who would have stopped him.
