Supporting Russian democracy groups is exactly what the U.S. did. That isn't more aggressive than what Russia did. I would be willing to look at evidence of something more than that. We all know about Russia's espionage attacks against the democratic elections of the United States. You trying to minimalize that doesn't change the facts about it.
Look, I'm not going to get into it with you, but it's funny that you are buying the party line when it comes to CIA actions by the US when it comes to attempting to interfere in foreign elections. It suggests you are pretty naive. The US has a long history of attempting and even succeeding in election interference....but if you buy the party line, they've never done nothin to nobody because they either spin or deny everything. When you engage in hostile actions like that, sometimes countries will retaliate. Honestly that's what happened. What we need is an agreement between the 2 nations that neither of us will do that again and we need to abide by it. You don't have to approve of Putin, everyone knows the things he's done, but attempting to overthrow him is an act of war. If you are fine with that, you have to expect them to retaliate. If you are going to then use that retaliation as a reason to increase hostility, you are setting yourself on a path to war. In short, it doesn't matter if the US or Russia ever admit publicly to what they did, what matters is if we can get a cessation of hostilities....and you don't get there by publicly insulting the leaders of foreign countries.
I'm familiar with many of the things our CIA has done meddling in other nations. I'm against many of them. That isn't the case here with Russia. All your talk of retaliation is pretty off base. Was Russia only retaliating when they tried the same tactics in France? Were they only retaliating when they tried the same tactics in Germany? Were they only retaliating when they tried the same tactics Moldova? Were they only retaliating all of the other places they've done it? Are you really scared that Russia is going to go to war with us if we hold them accountable for their espionage attacks on our democracy?
Who is asking for total trust? It’s not black and white. It’s more than just the CIA, our EU allies’ intelligence agencies also believe Russia interred and sought to manipulate their elections as well.
Putin has an ardent desire to reconstitute the last Russian empire, the Soviet Union. Putin has said himself that Gorbachev made a terrible mistake ending the Cold War and allowing freedom for the subjugated countries in Eastern Europe (Putin himself was a high ranked Russian/Soviet intelligence officer in East Germany), and that it was a mistake to allow the subjugated non-Russian peoples of the Soviet Empire to finally break away and reclaim their own nation states. Putin declared that allowing the Soviet Union to collapse was one of the most calamitous things to ever happen to Russia, that he misses it, and that he desires to return Russia to what it was when she controlled the Soviet Union, a great superpower dominating her neighbors. Putin has made clear his desires several times. It's no secret. It's not a secret to all of our intelligence apparatus, something like 17 different intelligence entities tasked with protecting the United States, or the intelligence services of our NATO allies, and those of our friends and allies in other parts of the world. It seems to be a mystery to trump and the members of his cult of personality. It's bizarre, at least to me, to conflate trump's supporters as being members of a cult centered around trump's demagoguery, yet after everything that has happened, the fact remains that they still reach for the most pathetic excuses to explain trump's behavior. In my opinion, that they are ignoring reality can only be attributed to them being over-awed by trump himself, the fellow's personality. Why they would allow themselves to be "captured" by trump's bluster, his divisive words and deeds, is a mystery to me, yet it cannot be denied. They are following trump's lead and Moscow is calling them to her bosom.
It's really not off base, you just seem to want to buy the party line despite suggesting that you know the history. SMH, so when the US creates and funds anti-Putin groups in Russia to attempt to overthrow him and plan and fund a year worth of protests in their country along with other stuff I won't go into, that's perfectly fine in your eyes, but if the Russians hack the DNC and expose some of their dirty laundry that's an "espionage attack on our democracy"......you don't see how hypocritical you are being? All I'm seeing from you is that you are out for revenge and you don't care what it costs. The Russians had the audacity to embarrass the DNC with their own words and that's unforgivable in your eyes. I just don't see a scenario where that kind of "thinking" ends well. It's much better to get over your butt hurt and work towards ensuring those kinds of things never happen again rather than retaliating against their retaliation and ensuring yet another round.
Oh, it was off base. I listed numerous other examples where Russia did the same thing. It wasn't just about retaliating against the U.S. I do support the United States supporting opposition groups that oppose authoritarian dictators. It's a good way to help spread democracy. To me, I don't give a damn about the DNC. I do care about the United States democracy. You can try and assign a pro-DNC motive to me if you'd like, but that is you talking about some imaginary motive that I don't really have. I've listed my stance and the reasons behind it. I don't think the scores of Republicans and intelligence officials that are upset by Russia's interference are doing it out of revenge for the DNC. Your argument makes no sense.
Sure it wasn't JUST about retaliating against the US, but that was absolutely part of it. By you supporting the US interfering in foreign elections, you invite those countries to do the same in the US along with other hostilities. The actions you support directly puts the safety of the United States in jeopardy.....and on top of that, kills your credibility when it comes to complaining about those activities. The "it's okay when we do it because they are bad and we are good" argument isn't going to get you very far. If you support tampering with elections in foreign countries then you can't be taken seriously when you act like tampering with elections in this country is some kind of unforgivable sin.
Supporting opposition groups in a place where they don't have fair elections isn't really interfering with democratic elections. It is interfering with a predetermined show of a pretend election.
Couple of things. 1. It's naive to think the US activity was limited to "supporting opposition groups" 2. You are going out of your way to support a double standard. I already told you that the "It's okay when we do it because we're good and they are bad" argument wouldn't fly, it still won't.
Man you really hate 44 don't you everything trump does seems to be okay by you it just makes one shake there head.
This poll suddenly feels just. a little bit awkward for those stridently defending yesterday's Trump. What do you do when the guy at the front of the conga line suddenly goosesteps 180 degrees?
No, I wouldn't say that I hate him, he was a bad president but that doesn't make me hate him. Also, by no means is "everything Trump does" okay, the problem is that you have the Trump Derangement Syndrome types whining about literally everything he does. When you have that situation, they'll eventually be wrong. Funny enough, the same people who criticize literally everything Trump does are the same people who would defend literally everything Obama has ever done. The truth is somewhere in the middle. While Obama was a pretty awful president, he did some decent things and while Trump is also a pretty awful president, he's done some decent things.
The Democrat bomb bomb bomb Iran McCain dick riding is nerve racking Of course he loves the cold war. He loves war Name a military action he didn't support
Im upset our intelligence agencies suggest Americans are stupid enough to ne duped into changing their votes
This is idiotic. You, just like Trump, are upset that something tainted his glorious electoral college victory.
