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Why So Much Hate Against One of the Rockets' Best Playoff Performers Since 1995?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by jbasket, Jan 26, 2015.

  1. jbasket

    jbasket Member

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    R2K was referring to my post where I stated that Neg Rep would not be in this case.

    My statement: "I, along with many other posters apparently, have noticed the trashing, hating, and general frustration with Dwight go overboard. No neg reps here mate."

    R2K was just reinforcing that. So yes, I "was correct" with that line above. Also, I personally would argue that I am moreso defending Dwight than critiquing posters. That's just me.

    Personally, I don't think R2K is really worried about the amount of hits on CF. But maybe I am just speaking my own thoughts right now.

    I would disagree, due to Harden being on a tear before the playoffs started. And that one game :) We will just have to agree to disagree.
     
    #101 jbasket, Jan 27, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2015
  2. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

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    Like I said, he kills Lopez, and they won't double. So we weren't "force feeding" him against Portland. If he pins a man under the basket, yeah, give him the damn ball. Every time. But stop giving it to him 9-12 feet out on the right block and expecting him to crab dribble his way to a good shot, or to make some running hook over any decent defender.
     
  3. jbasket

    jbasket Member

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    You mean somebody like Robin Lopez?

    http://www.si.com/nba/2015/01/08/blazers-nba-best-kept-secret-damian-lillard-lamarcus-aldridge

    "The marvel here isn't merely that the Blazers are getting by without their starting center. It's that they've grown and solidified to the point that they could play high-level defense for 25 games and somehow improve upon the injury of the team's best defensive player."

    http://www.lakersnation.com/lakers-vs-trailblazers-preview-lakers-play-back-to-back/2014/10/22/

    "Robin Lopez anchors the Blazers defense at center. He’s an imposing figure at seven feet tall and will turn away shots in the paint"

    http://www.portlandsports.com/blazers/wrong-blazers/

    "Bringing in Robin Lopez in the off-season was a good first step in solidifying this defense"

    http://oregonsportsnews.com/team-ne...opportunities-for-portland-trail-blazers.html

    "You could just about hear the collective groan from Portland Trail Blazers fans across the globe when those words were uttered. That’s how long the Blazers will be without their starting big man, Robin Lopez. The guy many had credited with being the single biggest factor in the team going from league-wide afterthought to playoff darling, will be sidelined for the better part of two months with a broken hand, suffered in the second half of Monday’s win over the San Antonio Spurs."

    http://hoopshabit.com/2014/04/20/nba-making-robin-lopezs-case-2014-defensive-team/

    http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Robin-Lopez-1073/

    "Lopez also excels on the defensive end, where he has good awareness, a fundamental base for post defense, and the physical tools to really impact the game"

    "Lopez maintains good position on the low block and does a good job blocking shots in man-to-man situations"

    http://www.bourbonstreetshots.com/2013/04/22/season-in-review-robin-lopez/

    "Lopez was a solid contributor as a paint protector this season both as a help defender and in the post. When opponents posted him up, he held them to .73 points per play (per MySynergy Sports), which is not elite, but certainly above average. In addition, he posted a career high block rate, swatting 5% of opponents’ field goal attempts while he was on the floor. Many of these blocks were a result of strong post D, but he picked up a decent number of them through help defense as well. The Hornets’ team stats back up Lopez’s defensive ability as well, as opponents scored 2.2 points per 100 possessions less with him on the court."

    The reason why he got the ball so far out is because of our guards lack of post-entry skill.

    You still didn't answer the question of where we would have gotten our offense if it wasn't for Dwight?
     
  4. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

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    I'm not denying that Dwight played well in that series, nor am I arguing that we would have been better off with him in that series. And you're right, Lopez isn't a bad defender... except when it comes to keeping Dwight away from the basket.

    The point still stands that Dwight has never been good at consistently creating anything if he gets the ball with a defender on his back from 6+ feet out. Even if he gets a double team, his passing skills are mediocre at best (this year his passing is a straight up liability).
     
  5. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

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    Without him*. Meant to say we should not have been better off without him.
     
  6. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    Some people are just black-and-white thinking. Saying that Dwight should not be posting so much does not mean he should NEVER post. It's just like saying that the long 2 is inefficient does not mean we should NEVER shoot long 2.

    You take what the defense gives you. But you also try not to let the defense dictate your offense. It's not just black and white. There are 50 shades of gray.
     
  7. jbasket

    jbasket Member

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    Lopez had forced Dwight out several times, give credit to him. You are letting your opinion cloud the objective view of the game. He still had success when out there. In addition, the Rockets lack of post-entry skill doesn't help in this department.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpevt7MlAnY
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V3uiGPuo98

    Every single one of his post-ups is outside of the paint?

    Keeping Dwight away from the basket is why Dwight is dominant in the playoffs. Nobody can do it consistently when increased physicality is allowed.
     
  8. Hakeemtheking

    Hakeemtheking Member

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    Jbasket, your comparison of previous and current Rockets stars is interesting and noteworthy. My criticism of your thread was to unnecessary group a number of posters together and imply that they are Howard haters. Never once have I opined that Howard should be traded, purged or whatnot. I only said he does not appear to be the player we have known as Dwight Howard, the superstar. Whether these are mental or physical limitations, I only said he should sit out for as long as needed to overcome these limitations.

    I do not believe the above opinion qualifies me as a D12 hater. That's all.
     
  9. tycoonchip

    tycoonchip Member
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    This is right on the money! I actually thought he did well last season posting up. The one thing I find that Dwight should really work on is his passing. What made Yao and Dream so scary was not just they had different ways to score on you, but that if they couldn't get themselves into position to score that basket, they would pass it out to someone who could. With Dwight I feel like the defense knows that once he gets the ball he is just aiming for the basket. It probably also helped having both Parsons and James on the wing but I feel that post defenders would have to ease up on him a bit more if they didn't know where he was going with that ball; whether to the open man or to the hoop. Physically muscling his way to the hoop though seems to still be easy for the guy. As said by previous posters we are a better team with Dwight and there is no reason why anyone would think otherwise. Dmo still needs some work.
     
  10. mfastx

    mfastx Member
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    jbasket,

    Of course the playoffs outweigh the regular season. And of course I want Howard on this team, I know we need him to win a title, we are not better off without him, currently constructed at least.

    I have just been annoyed with his obvious lack of effort and concentration this season, he was much better last season.
     
  11. LabMouse

    LabMouse Member

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    The conclusion is that Howard is not bad, but he is not good as Yao. At a time, we all thought Howard is much better than Yao, but that somehow is not the case, still I like Howard as our team center because he left LA for us.

     
  12. Hakeemtheking

    Hakeemtheking Member

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    IMO, Dwight Howard at his peak was better than Yao Ming at his peak. Never mind that the former was defensive player of the year and NBA first teamer multiple times, but he also led his team much farther into the playoffs, albeit in a weaker conference.

    Perhaps this is the root of the current D12 debate, namely that people still have memories of great Howard once was.
     
  13. jbasket

    jbasket Member

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    You are right.

    Is it really lack of effort and concentration, or is it trying to play through a nagging injury that takes time? Often can look like the same thing.

    Yao was the ultimate what-if scenario. While Yao did dominate DH in head-2-head matchups, Dwight has had the better overall performance against the league. Game is about matchups.

    What if I told you his career PER in the playoffs was against the Blazers? And, when he had started the year, he was already making a strong case for DPOY. Sounds like old Dwight to me.
     
  14. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

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    Anecdotal video evidence of one or two plays doesn't do much for me... Dwight averaged something like 26 and 14 against the Blazers in the regular season last year, and then did it to em again in the playoffs. That's not a coincidence.

    He played pretty well against them in his one game this year vs them, too. Not quite at that level, but still solid considering his knee problems.

    Anyways, we are arguing around the point right now. I have no problem with giving Dwight the ball when he gets position. I have a problem with allowing him to try to create a shot in the post with any significant distance between him and the basket. That does NOT go well.
     
  15. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

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    Just watched the videos you posted. Would edit, but can't. I thought you were posting videos of some plays where Robin kept Dwight outside and he wasn't able to score, my bad.

    I mean yeah, when Dwight is healthy and decisive and aggressive, he will get to the rim, sure (I already said I'm sure his knee/health is playing a role in his poor performance of late). But you'll notice that not many of those plays were actually "post ups". He was just beating his man to the spot. Plus, again, he was single covered on just about every one of those plays.

    I'm fine with an aggressive Dwight that plays within his game. I just don't want him trying to be Yao Ming out there.
     
  16. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

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    I will admit, though, that the way I was describing Howard's success against Portland wasn't really completely fair or accurate. He was creating some shots against single coverage, but he still wasn't really doing much of what I would call "posting up".
     
  17. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    I stand by Mr. Clutch. If Dwight isn't playing basketball, then I don't want to watch him play basketball. Unless he's playing basketball. Then I'll watch.
     
  18. NL Rocket

    NL Rocket Member

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    One series...one series...
     
  19. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    What if he is playing bad basketball?

    ;)

    Then what?

    DD
     
  20. jbasket

    jbasket Member

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    So when he scores, "Well it was single coverage". That is what superstars do: they beat single-coverage, and force teams to either bite the bullet or double. Portland bit the bullet knowing that Harden, Parsons, Lin, Beverley, and Jones would disappoint. Good call by them.

    If he gets doubled, "He doesn't produce much" (not quoting you specifically for these guys).

    It is a lose lose scenario, especially when you don't consider anything he did a post-up. If you don't consider those post-up opportunities...
     

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