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Why So Much Hate Against One of the Rockets' Best Playoff Performers Since 1995?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by jbasket, Jan 26, 2015.

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  1. Corrosion

    Corrosion Member

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    Howard is 10 years in , you expect the leopard to suddenly change his spots ?!


    That pick and roll with Harden as the facilitator and either of Howard or DMo as the picker with the other patrolling the baseline is almost impossible to defend - don't forget about the shooters in the corner.
    There are simply too many options for a defense to consider , especially with Howard as the guy on the baseline and DMo (or Smith) the picker.

    Stockton & Malone made a career out of it .... Teams couldn't stop it & they'd have a couple trophy's to show for it if it weren't for MJ & the Bulls.

    Dwert said before he signed here he didn't want to run that type of offense and McHale has not forced it on him.
    If it were up to me they'd run some variation of it every trip down the court.
     
    #81 Corrosion, Jan 27, 2015
  2. smoothie

    smoothie Jabari Jungle

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    a healthy motivated dwight is awesome. i just think he allows too many turnovers when posting up, and settles for too many forced hook shots that just brick off the glass.

    against portland last post season, he attacked the rim. that dwight is worth being a top 2 scoring option on this team. the dwight that we've seen this season should be the third option on offense since dmo has proven to be a better scorer in the post, but dwight still remains the best finisher on the team. his scoring should be off of PnR, put backs, alleys, and generally any other assisted shot. his 1-1 play hasn't been as good as dmo.

    that being said, we shouldn't take away from the great post season he had last year, or hate him for being injured (and trying to play through it), or trash him because dmo is a better post player. none of that should take away from dwight. we should be thrilled with dmo, and hope dwight can get healthy. that's all.

    we should be more worried about james actually showing up in the playoffs this year. he's been subpar in the playoffs every year of his career. i think that mostly has to do with his style of play. they call less ticky-tack fouls in the playoffs, and we know how much james loves driving in and trying to get fouled. once that method proves ineffective in the playoffs, james has tried to drive and score, but half-court playoff defense takes a lot of these opportunities away. so he's been relegated to being an outside shooter and not much else.

    this year james has added the post game, the mid range jumper game, and an off-ball game to his arsenal. its one reason why he's been so consistent on offense all year. he finally has something for every defense. when the playoffs come and they stop calling fouls, and the half-court game clogs the driving lanes, he'll post up. when the defense starts trapping him on PnR, he can be run off screens off the ball to get open for a catch and shoot. and when all else fails, he doesn't have to be stuck shooting 3's, he's really worked on scoring from midrange.

    this year we will have 2 dominant playoff performers to lead our team. we have gritty guys who won't back down from intense pressure (pat, ariza, terry, brewer), and a really good 3rd scoring option (especially in half-court situations) in dmo. dwight may have had one of the best playoff performances of any rocket in the past 20 years last year, but this year he will have company and support. I'm expecting the rockets to have one of the best team playoff performances by advancing one or 2 rounds this year.
     
    #82 smoothie, Jan 27, 2015
    1 person likes this.
  3. Hakeemtheking

    Hakeemtheking Member

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    This.

    OP seriously confuses criticism for hate. Aside from a few that actually want Howard to be traded, most of us only asked for Howard to hit the reset button so that he can attempt to address whatever is ailing him.

    Negative rep is well deserved.
     
    #83 Hakeemtheking, Jan 27, 2015
  4. kemah

    kemah Member

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    lol

    Again, Stockton and Malone DID'T win the trophy. The PnR is never unstoppable no matter how many times you say it. They came close because they had other threats. Most teams we face in the west playoffs will have the ability to shut down a one trick pony. Again, Howards season stats are about the same as his career stats so he is NOT coasting. It looks like the whole team is trying to play different but Howard is not allowed to try to expand and grow?
     
    #84 kemah, Jan 27, 2015
  5. cdrive

    cdrive Contributing Member

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    THIS. Agreed. There is a reason they don't trot out the one-trick pony too soon. It is study-able, mitigate-able. If you watched the Portland series, you saw us go from nearly 0 PnR in the reg season to SURPRISE! 50% PnR! They multiplied their PnR plays by an order of magnitude. I guarantee you behind closed door practices, H&H are running a lot more PnR than they are right now in reg season games. People chill, damn.
     
    #85 cdrive, Jan 27, 2015
  6. jbasket

    jbasket Member

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    Well, yes, Dwight doesn't hold a candle to the general Dream awesomeness? Not sure what you are getting here...

    I think we have hit an impass.

    And I agree: if he is hurt: so be it. But he is not "uninspired", "unmotivated", "waste of contract", "offensively inept", etc. Being hurt is being hurt. He wasn't "already in decline", and he was definitely not a bad decision to sign.

    I agree with you. But it is not his attitude, lack of declined play, suddenly. He is hurt, simply. And when he is healthy, he will, and rightfully so, start getting the ball in the post, and do his thing again.

    If you are making the argument that he doesn't have a good playoff history, you are very misguided.
    If a walking 20-10, DPOY material is not consistent, nobody is.

    So: Howard forced Harden to shoot awfully? I didn't know Howard was holding back our perimeter defense. This perception that "he got his" is just not true. Dwight post-ups do not inhibit Harden's ability to run a PnR or do iso ball, which he did. He did average 23 FGA.

    Yes, there was two or three threads about dumping Harden for Martin. He is not lying.

    Dwight is a more physically gifted Asik? What? Asik could have an extra 25 inch vertical, and he wouldn't be able to sniff what Dwight can do. Asik can't catch the ball. Please.

    At the beginning of the year, the offense was running well because there was an effective high-low with Dwight and Jones, and Dwight was being effective in the post. He was being doubled in the beginning of the year: don't use revisionist history. The offense being ran is very similar. The difference is Dmo does not play the high post as effectively as Jones and not nearly as much, and Dwight is not posting up as well.

    I get that Dwight is not playing well, but saying Taric Black was playing better is just purely ridiculous. Dwight still scares people away from the paint, and puts up numbers. Remove the expectations, and objectively speaking, it's not even close. And, for what it's worth, the offense was not particularly efficient with Dwight out and Black in. The slippage of play by others is not always Dwight's fault, but he is a nice scapegoat.

    You are right: nobody is Duncan, Shaq, Kareem, or Hakeem. They are one of a kind. Dwight Howard players don't come around often either. Don't undersell him by stating that he is not a top 20 player of all time.

    This post is exactly what I am talking about. Dwight is having an injured stretch, and all of a sudden, he is just an upgraded Asik and selfish. No: he is a top 10 player in the league that is hurt.

    Really? Based on how well he has played in half of a season? Terrible playoff series? Averaging less than 10 rebounds a game? One game, which is part of this Dwight injury stretch does not define who is a better player.

    How on earth does that even relate, and on what scale, and what?

    What is clearly observable is he is hurt. What is not observable, and objectively false, is permanent declined play when fully healthy, uninspired, and detrimental.

    He has been slowed by one injury and let's trade him? See, that's the problem: this is the first time, remind you at the beginning of the year, that he has had something that is not a "ankle" injury. Yea, we all didn't like the Tmac saga, but there is a clear difference between the two players.

    So you think it is worthy to put more weight on a relatively bad regular season stretch than a fantastic playoff stretch?

    Because combine last year's playoff and his athletic start, it is clear he just needs to get healthy. When so, he will be able to post up effectively.

    I cannot stand how a post-up destroys the offense. In the playoffs, the pace naturally gets slower. Dwight posting up does not affect the PnR the next play. It doesn't affect any Horns action they run the next play. It doesn't affect iso-ball.
    If your argument is that Dwight is adding losses, you should try to find a new one.

    Players are able to "heal up" while playing. Sometimes soreness needs to just be worked through. It is entirely possible this is the case. Heck, I worked through soreness in my own knees for a while. Not everything forces one to sit out. We don't know what the training staff is recommending to Dwight. Trading him this quickly is just knee-jerk. I bet if CF was around with Hakeem in the early 90s, you would have wanted to trade him as well.

    In the playoffs, it is two years running that the "Harden system" was not working well. The "Dwight system" had success. Also, if talking about selfishness, if you go back on the tape, watch where Harden is on the court when Dwight is posting up. Out of the play. Heck, you could go to the highlights and see it. Thus, with Dwight healthy, we need that system and the "Harden system" as well. Harden did average over 22 FGA in the playoffs.

    Saying he will be another Tmac is exactly what I am referencing to. That is an insult. He is not even close to pulling a Tmac.

    As of right now, if there is a year where seeding doesn't matter, it is this year. The teams seem very even. In fact, it is probably best to have OKC play GS in the first round.

    Let's ask another question: was that Dwight also present in the regular season last year? No. But the playoffs allow for a more physical style, which benefits Dwight. If you cannot see how Dwight has always elevated his game in the playoffs, I guess you must be blind to his game when he is healthy.

    Harden did not rest. Harden just stunk in the playoffs. I would have to say your argument is incorrect. I agree with the peaking information.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hardeja01/gamelog/2014/

    I don't expect a leopard to change his spots. But when the leopard puts up a 26/13, then it is reasonable to think the leopard can utilize those spots.
    An offense needs more than one option, and the PnR was shut down in the playoffs last year. I agree that we need to use it, but not having diversity in an offense in the playoffs is not a healthy formula. That is why teams "get exposed", and it is the main reason the Clippers are trying to stress BG in the post.

    I wish I could have articulated this myself, but I would say we hope to have two playoff performers. We all know the liability here.

    I, along with many other posters apparently, have noticed the trashing, hating, and general frustration with Dwight go overboard. No neg reps here mate.
     
    #86 jbasket, Jan 27, 2015
  7. Corrosion

    Corrosion Member

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    I give up , I'm just a hater ....
     
    #87 Corrosion, Jan 27, 2015
  8. cdrive

    cdrive Contributing Member

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    Sorry, but we did though. Not as extensively as Howard with like 10 games, but we did in our last regular season game.

    Rockets rest Harden, Lin, Parsons for finale
    NEW ORLEANS (AP) — The Houston Rockets, already locked into the fourth seed in the Western Conference playoffs, have decided to rest James Harden, Jeremy Lin and Chandler Parsons for Wednesday night's regular season finale against the New Orleans Pelicans.
    The decision by coach Kevin McHale removes from the lineup two starters and a regular reserve who've combined for an average of 54.5 points.
    Houston opens the playoffs on Sunday at home against the Portland Trail Blazers.
    Pelicans coach Monty Williams says he's unsure of the status of point guard Brian Roberts, who has missed the previous two games with a sore left ankle. But he says Roberts has done everything he can to be ready to play one last time this season for injury-plagued New Orleans.
    http://bigstory.ap.org/article/rockets-rest-harden-lin-parsons-finale

    (And we lost that game, and thusly entered the playoffs losing 3 of our last 5, and going .500 in our last 10)
     
    #88 cdrive, Jan 27, 2015
  9. Rockets2K

    Rockets2K Clutch Crew

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    Nope, it is not.

    He at least put the effort into creating a thread with a different take, and I dont see most of you "criticizers" doing the same.

    Hate, or unwarranted criticism, call it what you want. The OP is correct.
     
    #89 Rockets2K, Jan 27, 2015
  10. AvgJoe

    AvgJoe Contributing Member

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    The comparisons are valid, but somewhat flawed. Dwight dominated that series, but you need to look into match ups, and opponent team strategies. They allowed Dwight play 1 on 1 on Robin Lopez most of the time. They deliberately tried to take out Harden's game. They knew they couldn't allow Harden to take off. I'm not saying Dwight wasn't good, but if you do the comparison for example, Yao '05 first game, Porland allowed him 1 on 1 and that totally destroyed them (24 pts 9/9 shooting). From 2nd game, they doubled Yao, took away some of his game, and rest of team contributed and we won that series. But last year, Porland rarely doubled Dwight, allowed him to be dominating.
     
    #90 AvgJoe, Jan 27, 2015
    1 person likes this.
  11. T_Man

    T_Man Contributing Member

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    DAMN GOOD REPLY!!!

    T_Man

     
    #91 T_Man, Jan 27, 2015
  12. kemah

    kemah Member

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    lol

    I wouldn't say that. :)

    Most here will agree that the playoffs will be a slower game and we will need to play a more half court game if they do. We have the PnR and alley oops down pat I believe so we should be trying to get the team ready to play differently. It is not just Howard that needs to learn but the team. The team sucks at getting the ball to the big men as well as the timing of doing so. It is just my belief that we shouldn't abandon it completely but work at it. Like we allowed Dmo to learn the post and that took over 2 years. Harden had to learn to be the Superstar he is now the past two years and I am glad we were patient enough to let him.

    We are the 4th seed at the moment.
     
    #92 kemah, Jan 27, 2015
  13. SF3isBack!!

    SF3isBack!! Member

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    ^This
     
    #93 SF3isBack!!, Jan 27, 2015
  14. SF3isBack!!

    SF3isBack!! Member

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    You have completely ignored every fact that he posted, lol SMH. I would give up also.
     
    #94 SF3isBack!!, Jan 27, 2015
  15. RocketBlood

    RocketBlood Contributing Member

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    Dwight is not healthy so not sure why so many people are hating on him. He is doin what he can and once playoffs come he will be ready an dominate like he did last years playoffs. And even then haters with still hate after he dominates.
     
    #95 RocketBlood, Jan 27, 2015
  16. SF3isBack!!

    SF3isBack!! Member

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    Thats all well and good but did you now that it's easier to get injured when you are already injured and still insist on playing ball.
     
    #96 SF3isBack!!, Jan 27, 2015
  17. jbasket

    jbasket Member

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    I appreciate you pointing out my mistake. However, my original premise still stands. You think that resting Harden, Lin, and Parsons one game threw off our mojo for the playoffs? These guys had been playing together all season in games, practices, training camp, and unofficial camp. And you think one game rest was why they were out of synch? One game?

    When people discuss how resting players could create lapses in chemistry, it is a topic of concern after several games, not one. I remember that they "stumbled" into the playoffs, but it was clear that was because they were missing Howard.

    Thanks :)

    I have stated ad nauseam how this take is not correct in this thread. The premise that they let Howard "get his" is incorrect. Their PGs were able to dig, and their big guys clearly shaded over. It was very similar to how the Rockets played against the Heat. They went 1 on 1 vs Lebron in the perimeter, but brought Howard extremely far over. Now imagine that, but in a diminished size. You really think they were worried about Asik on the weak side more than Howard? Also, it seems like you do not remember that Howard basically fouled out all of the Portland bigs, and they had to put LMA or TRob on him. There was much help given to those two when Dwight was in the post.

    This premise can be utilized if Howard was just surrounded by shooters. Harden is not a shooter; neither is Parsons and Lin. They have slashing abilities. Dwight's post-ups do not affect their slashing ability. Dwight's post-ups do not affect the Harden iso, nor the Harden PnR.

    They doubled Harden in the 1st game and the start of the 2nd. After that, they did not. Harden could not produce even against one guy. It wasn't that Portland was heavily scheming against him

    Harden averaged 22 FGA, above his season average. Once again, how could this premise be correct if Harden and Parsons both took more shots in this series than in the regular season? If they were closing out on shooters, then intuitively, their shot numbers would decrease.

    While Yao did face some double teams, it was not to the point that he should have been completely shut out. No team doubles every possession. Also, in '05, Yao played the Mavs :) I know what you are referring to.

    I tend to trust the Rockets' training staff to do what they think is best.
     
    #97 jbasket, Jan 27, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2015
  18. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    I agree. I don't see why T-Mac gets so much grief for choking in the playoffs when he really played out of his mind.
     
    #98 JuanValdez, Jan 27, 2015
  19. Junkyard Dog

    Junkyard Dog Member

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    R2K,

    Dude, get off your "high horse". OP's opinion is exactly that. An opinion. He has very valid points to how he has arrived at such an opinion. Still doesn't make his opinion a "correct" one. Good on the OP for having an "original" take or being the first user to post one. Some of these "criticizers" are one of the reasons you and the other moderators are getting hits on the site. Who cares if people think Dwight is soft, unmotivated, injured, or anything for that matter. If a player gives a fan ANY reason (however big or small it may be) to think any of those things, fans have the right to speak out. The phrase, "Everyone is a critic." is around for a reason. No one has unwarranted criticisms. Everyone is clearly stating what has warranted the criticism. The definition of "criticize" can be found here.

    crit·i·cize
    verb \ˈkri-tə-ˌsīz\

    : to express disapproval of (someone or something) : to talk about the problems or faults of (someone or something) *IN THIS CASE DWIGHT HOWARD AND HIS PLAY THIS SEASON **NOT HIS PLAY IN LAST YEARS PLAYOFFS

    : to look at and make judgments about (something, such as a piece of writing or a work of art)


    Anyone has the right to "express disapproval" of anything at anytime. You and the OP critiquing posters is no different from them critiquing Dwight or me critiquing you now. Every critique is always warranted. That's why this website, board, and even this thread itself is a GOOD one. Everyone expressing their different opinions. ClutchFans.net at its finest!

    Nothing but love for everyone here (R2K included ;)), but to call people out for expressing opinions. That's just not right.


    *I do want to say I love having Dwight on this team. I would not trade him nor would I rather see him on the bench. We ARE a better team with Dwight on the floor.
     
    #99 Junkyard Dog, Jan 27, 2015
    1 person likes this.
  20. cdrive

    cdrive Contributing Member

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    Not trying to be all "Gotchya", and I respect what you're saying. It was just 1 game. But we were slipping bad: lost 3 of our last 5, Howard had just got off an extended rest, lost 5 of our last 10, went from 3rd seed to 4th seed (which we knew was huge and in hindsight was)...we still had stuff to sort out. One game but it was like a whole swap out with 2 starters, our "6th man" secondary playmaker, I mean. We were noticeably off to start the series. James was noticeably off. There is a reason why they keep split stats for 1 day off, 2 day, 3 day etc. I just think it hurt us. And back to Dwight, which is why I really brought up James, he had a ton of time off right before the playoffs. It might have been why he played so great, but I'm suggesting it might have thrown others off team-chemistry wise. Hey I could be wrong. I'm ok with that. -Cheers
     
    #100 cdrive, Jan 27, 2015
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