Just wondering... With our #1 and 2 starters tied for the league lead in wins and, coincidentally, possibly running 1 and 2 in the Cy Young race... Where does the 2004 duo rank among the best in the game over the last, say...5 years or so? Are they up there with Pedro and Schilling? What about Randy and Schilling? Could they, along with a healthy Andy Pettitte, rival Oakland's Hudson/Mulder/Zito troika as the best in baseball next year? Seeing these two guys become the type of rare workhorses who can carry a team to a title got me thinking about the best in baseball right now, and this is what I came up with: 1. Schilling/Pedro(Sox) - Hard to argue with these multiple CY award winners. Curt might add to his total again this year (but Santana deserves it), and Pedro is probably the closest thing to Randy Johnson he could have found to once again form the best starting tandem in the game. Seeing these two 4(or possibly 5) times in a seven game series could be lights out for any lineup. 2. Oswalt/Rocket(Stros) - If this season has proven anything, it is that any team with these two at the top of the rotation has a chance. If they don't split eachother's votes, either would be a worthy choice for the Cy Young (along with JSchmidt)...here's a vote for Roy to get his first. The Rocket is a proven postseason commodity, so if the Astros could somehow get in, these two alone ensure our best postseason hope since Randy came to town. 3. Mulder/Hudson(A's) - Zito's off year gives these two the nod, but he could easily be the best of the three next year and already has a Cy Young. But strangely none of the three has lifted this team to greatness in the postseason. Until then, they don't outrank any staff with Pedro, Schilling or Roger on it. 4. Santana/Radke(Twins) - Santana alone gets these two in the top 5. He is the leading candidate to get a CY in the AL, and he could be THE best pitcher on any team in a 7 game series. His ride has been the best of the year, but uncertainty over experience keeps them from the top. 5. Beckett/Pavano(Marlins) - Close call over Schmidt/Rueter and Randy/whoever, but Beckett is a proven postseason gamer and Pavano has had a season to rival Schmidt/Johnson's on his own.
hmmm. I must disagree. 1) tie. Johan Santana/Brad Radke and Roger Clemens and Roy Oswalt : Johan may be inexperienced, but he's been ridiculously dominant and has had the AL Cy Young clinched for the past week or so. Brad Radke is no slouch either, and has recovered from a few down years to post the kind of borderline No. 1 starter numbers he's capable of - his veteran experience balances out Johan's youthful exuberance(I'll take overused phrases for $500 Alex.) Clemens and Oswalt likewise balance youth and wisdom, but where the above pitcher's match a contrast in styles of flamethrower and finesse - both Oswalt and Roger are hard-throwing, no-nonsense pitchers who will throw on the inside of the plate, and if you get hit - too damn bad. Both are near the top of the leaderboard in ERA, Wins, Strikeouts, and General BadAssery. 3) Pedro and Curt : Curt may have twenty wins, but he hasn't been the indomitable force of nature he was for Arizona - and Pedro may have a decent ERA - but has hardly pitched like one of the all-time greats. Still, with both having dissapointing seasons they still manage to post up ERAs in the top 25 of the league and give their team's oodles of wins. And if they both discover their spark in the playoffs, the Red Sox will walk it in the AL. 4) Zambrano/Clement : Hardly the duo you expected to lead Chicago from the mound, but Zambrano has been excellent - and despite Clement's consistent inconsistency he's rarely imploded(with one memorable exception) - and has at times been unhittable. 5) Oliver Perez and Ben Sheets : Ok, Milwaukee and Pittsburgh really only have the talent for one good team - so I combined these two - and I want to give them credit. Lost in the hoopla over Randy and Johan and Roger this year has been the quiet dominance of Ben Sheets - one of only three starters in the league with a WHIP under one(the other two? Randy and Johan) and an ERA and strikeout numbers that would put him in darkhorse Cy Young contention if he didn't play for the Brewers and the token Good guy on a bad team is taken this year. Oliver Perez's biggest weakness is his high walk rate - but he's young and has stuff so filthy Steve Kline wouldn't put it on his cap. High strikeout rates, low era - one of a plethora of bright stars the Pirates must eventually ruin because, well, they're the Pirates. Honorable Mention : Randy Johnson/Brandon Webb - lose points because the D'Backs are so gawdawful.
I would argue that Oswalt and Clemens will go down as perhaps the two most dominating pitchers ever. Alone. Or together.
Whoa buddy... Legitimate case for Clemens, but putting that kind of tag on Oswalt is beyond premature hyperbole. I hope that was a joke.
I'm serious man. He's second only to Pedro in Winning percentage. EVER. and he's only going to get better.
I know they can't control the actions of their teammates, but regardless, imo if you don't make the playoffs, then you shouldn't be listed ahead of a pair that does, especially one the kicked ass on their way to a World Series.
While I certainly agree with you on Oswalt's ceiling, he is only one of a handful of young pitchers who COULD become a Pedro/Clemens/Randy type dominator, along with other young studs like Mark Prior, Tim Hudson, Josh Beckett, Ben Sheets and others. But he's only been doing it since 2001... Pedro's been doing it since 95... Randy since 93... And Clemens since 86... In each case, that's another 6-10 years of dominance each has on Roy. Oswalt needs another 5-7 years like he's had this year to even be considered in their class of pitchers. But of the current up-and-comers in baseball, he's definitely cemented his place at the top. Here's to Roy finishing his career with the Astros as a HOF and one of the best ever.
to think i had half tha pitching staff, plus oswalt haladay and sabathia and still lost the fantasy league, damn they get injured alot.
That almost as good as mine. I came in dead last with; Clemens, Pettite, Prior, Hudson, and Mussina. My backups were Perez and K. Rogers. No way I should have lost. But damn injuries killed me.
The Oswalt/Clemens duo is the reason why if the Astros do make the postseason, they should be the favorites to go to the World Series. It's the other 3 in the rotation that will make it tough for us to even get there...
No matter what happens this year, we have to do the following this offseason, IMO: 1. Talk Clemens into coming back...if a playoff berth and/or CY are in his future, this talk should be much easier. I think watching Barry Bonds, Randy Johnson and others continue to dominate into their forties is what's really fueling his fire. He wants, more than anything, to keep proving people wrong. I see no reason why he can't or won't stay. $7M, 1YR. 2. Trade Wade Miller...I hate to say it, and I love the guy, but we all knew it would probably eventually come down to him or Oswalt, and we know Roy isn't going anywhere. With both due for huge raises, and Oswalt clearly the much better pitcher, it looks like the time has come to shop Wade. With Clemens, Pettitte, Oswalt, and Hernandez, the Astros can use the 5th to let guys like Backe, Buckholtz and others prove they belong in the majors. Plus, I think Miller's terrible mechanics are catching up with him, and it's better to sell early than buy late. This guy could still be a great pitcher, but he could also pull a Paul Wilson and have to make a much later comeback as a finesse pitcher or something. Use the $$$ elsewhere (Carlos Beltran anyone?). Could probably save us $4-5M next year. 3. Let Kent leave and replace him with Burke...Kent is too expensive to bring back, and it is time to give former 1st-rounder Burke a shot at the big time. He just won team MVP honors at AAA, he has steadily progressed through all the minor's levels, and he is exactly what the Stros need: speed in the leadoff position and excellent defense in the infield. Saves roughly $9M 4. Talk to Biggio and Bagwell...in a complete reversal from the past few seasons, it appears Biggio is the bargain and Bagwell has now become the guy who is losing it quickly. Watching Bags play like this is eerily reminiscent of watching Cammy corkscrew himself into the ground a couple of years back. It makes me very sad to see my All-Time favorite Astro do this to himself, much like it was to watch Hakeem in his last few years. But, much like Hakeem, I think the time may have come that we might be a better team with someone else at first base. If this was the AL, he could DH and everything would be great. But he's not. I don't even know if it would be possible, but I would at least ask Baggy if he would submit a list of AL teams he would accept a trade to. If not, I give him one more year at first to prove he can rebound and justify the deal. Last night proved again that the sooner we get Berkman to first base, the better off our outfield defense will be. Unfortunately, I think his contract may be too hard to move. As for Biggio, I would gladly ask him to comeback as a super-utility starter for $2M. Ideally, he could spell both Lane in left and Burke at second while still starting about 120 games and becoming the #1 pinch-hitter when he's not starting. Sadly, his ego may not let this be possible. 5. Work out a longterm extension with Lance and Roy...Assuming that we can workout some kind of deal to significantly defer or remove most of Bagwell's $17M, these guys both need to be locked up with long-term deals as soon as possible. I would make both backloaded so that when Pettitte (Oswalt) and Bagwell (Berkman), these two start to get the big bucks. They are the respective cornerstones of our rotation and Lineup. 6. Got to Scott Boras and pray...Beltran is the kind of player who makes the game look easy, like AJones, Vlad Guerrero and others. As such, he will be paid like one. However, I think his time here may convince Drayton to open up the checkbook one more time. Back in reality, though, I know he will end up on the Yankees. But that's not all bad news. If he leaves, I would go straight to Jose Cruz Jr. and sign him to play right. Then, bring in Willy Taveras to play center. If Taveras can't handle it, Cruz, Biggio and Berkman have all played there before. But I think Taveras will do just fine. 7. Get the set-up man Lidge needs...to really slam the door at the end of a game, we need to type of set-up guy Dotel was for Billy. (Isn't it ironic that if Dotel's ego had allowed him to continue as the set-up man for Lidge from the beginning of the year that we could have exactly that? Of course, no Beltran, but anyway...) I was thinking something like an Arthur Rhodes, but not as expensive or old. Maybe Urbina if this hostage thing settles down. But something to give Lidge the kind of support that could give us a Gagne/Mota or Wagner/Dotel kind of duo to close out games. Lidge would still be the closer of course. So, in conclusion... This is my PERFECT offseason: Add: Burke Taveras Urbina Keep: Clemens Beltran Biggio Deal: Kent Miller Bagwell Burke Taveras/Palmeiro Beltran Berkman Lane/Biggio Lamb/Ensberg Chavez/Ausmus Everett/Vizcaino Oswalt Clemens Pettitte Hernandez Backe/Buckholtz Lidge Urbina Harville Qualls Gallo
I wonder how much it will retake to sign Roger.. I'm sure we can still get a home town discount like last year.. but after the amazing year he had... a little raise at least is probably needed.. especially since he put the fans into the seats etc.. His market value for a one year contract is probably what 14 mil or so...? I don't think he'll demand that of us or anything but.. the 7 or 8 mil range seems about right.. give him a few mil more than this year
As the thread states, "Duo"! In other words, when the opposing team faces you, do they **** their pants against Roger & Roy then feast against the other 3. The answer is YES 1
