Where does James Harden rate All Time in shooting guards ?

I'm not sure and don't have a computer to research... But I know a decent number of players that will easily back up what I'm saying. That carries more weight for me than anything.

 

lolwut? You are thinking about T-Mac, not Harden.

 

Harden has reached a peak on offense that Kobe Bryant never came close too.

No defensive prowess from any wing could ever bridge that disparity.

Kobe Bryant had better help and played easier competition.

 

It's hard to compare across eras honestly. No one can say how Kobe would be in the modern era. People adopt their games to the current style of play and rules. Kobe still played mainly in the era of big men.

I would rank Kobe and MJ higher than Harden. Harden has a great offensive game, but Kobe and MJ were better defenders. Kobe also could elevate above defenses for his shoot, something Harden doesn't do (he steps backs which is pretty good too)

But when you are putting Harden in this sort of company - you have to be happy. You can argue whether Harden is number 2 or number 5 - but at this point who cares? He's the best SG in the NBA by a mile right now - and that's what matters.

 

Okay, so you have more subjective opinion to go against every objective metric that suggests otherwise. Sorry but that appeal to authority fails when it is contrary to all evidence.

 

Kobe averaged 4.9 APG from the time Bynum was a viable player to the time he was traded from Dwight, don't compare that to Harden averaging 8-11 APG the last 3 years setting up Capela for easy lobs

 

Lol reading comprehension

I said without a second star

 

The spurs game, that required him to get to he second round, without any other stars.
You just contradicted yourself.
Also 2007 WCR1 G7 for Kobe quitting on his team

Name me the all stars on last years Rockets team outside of Harden

 

Win shares or defensive win shares... Thats how you calculate who the better player is? Yeah, I'll go with people who actually stepped on the court and don't rely on some statistical formula.

Those formulas don't take into account the different eras. It' ssomething that can't be compared... The offensive efficiency, scoring, game play, etc... Has completely changed. It's a different game today than 10 years ago or more.

And this debate was more or less about you saying Kobe shouldn't even be in the discussion for top 5 or top 10 or whatever. That's just nonsense.

 

You think assists is all that matters? It's spacing and attention that matters.

Harden is a better offensive player, nobody is saying he isn't. But Kobe dwarfed him on the defensive side and has an accomplished post season resume.

 

Win shares don't mean anything, except MJ is #1 in WS/48 all time for retired players, backing up his GOAT status pretty well.
LeBron is also the all time playoffs WS leader, backing up his total carry jobs.
Advanced statistics are pretty good for seperating the overhyped from the greats

 

Anyone who thinks Kobe isn't a top 3 all-time great shooting guard doesn't know anything about basketball.

Just because people can go on Basketball reference and look up stats doesn't mean jack.

 

Spacing don't matter if you don't pass the damn ball.

 

He is top 3

1. Jordan

huge power gap

2. harden
3. kobe
4. wade

 

The problem here is that there is literally no metric that supports your opinion of Kobe Bryant.....so even if some metrics aren't perfect, don't you think you could come up with something, anything to support your opinion besides the fact that others share your opinion?

Also, when you say the formulas don't take into account the different eras.....why isn't that a problem for Jordan? Those exact same metrics that expose Kobe as a fraud support the idea that Jordan is the greatest SG of all time. Are numbers just biased against Kobe?

And finally, I said that Kobe doesn't belong in a conversation about where Harden ranks all time as a SG since Harden is clearly superior to Kobe. I also suggested that if you want to discuss who is better between someone like Clyde Drexler and Kobe, then we could have that conversation, but Harden is clearly ahead of Kobe by every available metric.

 

But who did the spurs have? Kawhi was out. Harden choked.

 

Ill say about 5. Last year playoff game 7, he just didnt show up. I think he went to the gentlemans club the night before. Just speculating.

 

You know you’re losing an argument when you bust out the “I hung out with NBA players regularly so I know more than you” reasoning.

 

No, not really... I refrained from using it until dumb metrics are used to evaluate how good a player is.

People that know, know that Kobe is right up there behind MJ. People who use basketball reference are generally clueless.

And just to be clear... I'm not saying i know more... Im saying what they repeat to me.

 

I don't think it's insane at all. Harden is better than Kobe. Far better even. Kobe wishes he could pass or rebound like Harden. Kobe was also a vastly over-rated defender. Harden has become a strangely under-rated defender. Not that he's an excellent defender, but he's very serviceable now and he still holds his reputation of being a bad defender. I think Harden is about as good a defender as Kobe ever was now. The ring argument is all Kobe has going for him and he played with peak Shaq, peak Pau, etc. Harden is playing in the era of LeBron and the Steph/KD/Klay/Draymond Warriors. If he gets a ring with the Warriors in tact and LeBron still playing at this level, there will be no argument as far as I'm concerned.