This has become an exhausting discussion of late as teams continually try to undermine Hardens value and offer us scraps. But there is perception, and then there is reality...and Houston is not trading on perceptions. So let’s look at what’s real: The Anthony Davis Trade Lakers In: Davis NOP In: Ingram, Ball, Hart and 3 1st Round Picks (one of which was the known #4 pick in the 2019 draft). Anthony Davis, like Harden, was disgruntled and very vocal about it. He even had the media accusing the Pelicans of racism for not trading him. He is, without question, a lesser player than Harden, having significantly less personal and team success by a wide margin when you take out this previous year with Lebron. Also, at the time of his trade, Anthony Davis had just 1 year left on his deal. So if I’m Houston, Harden is getting traded for NO LESS than what Davis got. if that’s the 76ers, then it’s... Simmons = Ingram Ball = Thybulle Hart = Maxey and all of their available picks and swaps I would LOVE to hear a persuasive argument for why Houston should settle for less than this for Harden, but I have yet to hear it. If the Pelicans could endure a full year of all of this junk to get the right package for Davis, so can we.
I agree. BUT...... The only argument against is that LAL was under pressure to get it done. Same with LAC (Kawhi/George). We would need the 76ers to be playing poorly to add that pressure. That's the only thing.
Agree with this - the Lakers couldn't risk losing the last of Lebron's good years so they probably paid more than what they otherwise would have given the window for Lebron as the proven #1 option was closing.
the pressure will be there, simply because only one team can win the East, and the difference will likely be which team has James Harden.
Only argument I can think of is age. AD was 26 at the beginning of his prime While Harden is 31 at the end of his prime. Those extra 5 years of a player’s prime is the difference in value.
Can’t believe nobody’s mentioned. Scottie Pippen for Kelvin Cato, Walt Williams, Stacey Augmon, Ed Gray, Brian Shaw and Carlos Rogers. @tinman
the pressure is there. What happens to Philly if Harden goes to, say, Miami? Miami, and possibly Milwaukee, are now the favorites.
true, though Hardens game will likely age better than ADs, and Harden is just the better player anyway.
additional problem is AD isn't at the stage where he's at the aging talk. he's just now entering his prime years while harden is going to start leaving his with 3 more years on his super max. still damn good obviously but both situations were entirely different
I mean, you can look at the PG13 deal, or JRue if you want...lesser players traded for mountains of picks. But Harden is clearly a tier above those guys, as is AD. AD is the best example simply because the situations, caliber of players, etc are closer. I guess you could bring up Kawhi, but there were legitimate questions about his health at the time, even now there are.
I guess, but Harden has shown zero signs of aging. Not to say he won’t, but he could legitimately be an MVP candidate for the next 3 years.
hes definitely slowed down in some aspect of his game. not drastically but it has happened. again didn't say he wasn't still going to be damn good. He will be. Also now that AD is with Lebron, you're going to see the same thing with AD as lebron slowly passes the torch over. he's likely going to be in that conversation
If he has, it’s not showing up anywhere in the stats. He just had one of his best seasons finishing at the rim, which is where you would think it would show up. Also still drawing tons of contact...most FTA per game of his career. Shooting stats are all the same.
Harden is not even close to approaching Pippen-level ass-hattery yet. Pippen was here for one crappy year in which he was exceedingly mediocre. He was a dud in a first round playoff exit (even dribbling the ball off his foot to seal a loss), then blamed his Rudy and Barkley for all the problems. An 8 year resume with the Rockets buys Harden a lot more rope. I have never heard Harden explicitly blame other players for playoff failures, and he has been stellar and durable over 8 years here. I am not going to blame him for a messy exit any more than I did Hakeem.
because counting stats don't tell the entire story. That isn't indicative of what changes. it never is. You have to look at the totality of how he plays year in and year out. He makes adjustments. It doesn't show because he's that skilled and is able to masks what he doesn't do now compared to the past.
I agree to an extent - we shouldn't feel pressured to trade him, but you squeeze out value by having multiple teams bidding up so maximizing the number of potential trade partners is a good idea - but the longer you do not trade him, the more you risk diminishing returns and less teams interested as risk piles up. I mean you COULD trade Harden to a bad team today if they were determined they could spend the next 2 years trying to get Harden to re-sign and frankly Harden+any Eastern Conference team is an automatic playoff team - so maybe a team like the Hawks is a potential trade partner today but wouldn't be a trade partner at the trade deadline next year because they likely wouldn't get temporary value out of the risk. If I'm Rafael Stone today my math looks something like this: 1. Teams who have assets we are interested in (lowest value but you track to try to pull them into deals later) 2. Teams who have assets we are interested in AND at least some of those assets are available in trade 3a. Teams who are proposing trades specifically for James Harden and aren't just kicking the tires but honestly have interest. 3b. Teams who have assets we aren't interested in but are making them available via trade(potential 3 way trade options) 4a. Just keep James Harden and hope he re-signs 4b. Potential Free Agents if Harden walks and we get no assets at the end of his contract Model what it looks like today, model what we think it will look like at the trade deadline this year, in the offseason next year, and finally at the trade deadline next year. and the goal is to get the number of teams as high as possible in #3a and your math turns into determining the better package between #5, ,#3a , #3b+#2 , #4a/b....another important decision is the relative priority of the future of the franchise - for example, Tillman's appetite for a rebuild. That may skewer the value of #4's feasibility. Right now though, unless the offers are really good, there is just no incentive to make a deal. If it were me prioritizing I would prioritize something like: #4a > #3a > #2 + #3b > #4b
Scottie would have been a star, borderline superstar on any average team if he left the Bulls after 2 titles. Defensive superstar. I think his stats wouldn't qualify for a superstar in this era. Times change, in the 90s scoring was luxury.
