That seems to be an American more than anything. You don't typically see this in black immigrant groups....or at least I've never observed. I've had family members disowned for having children out of wedlock. Haven't seen it on the American side of the family.
Exactly my point! The problem is a poisonous subculture, it has nothing to do with biology....which means it can be overcome. People of any race that embrace poisonous subcultures end up worse off for it.
Can we normalize that data by the following factors: Economic Wealth Parents education level Previous incarceration on petty drug charges
I wouldn't limit it to a subculture per se since those numbers appear to be on the rise in this nation in general, but I can say that it is definitely frowned upon for West Indian women.
"Black on Black" crime in Chicago is mostly drug/gang-related. You stop the flow of drugs (and the white customers who buy), that would stop most of the homicides. It is not the black people who are importing the drugs............cartels and white syndicates.
all culturals have accident babies. I'm suggesting African Americans bail more often because they cant afford it more often.
Its not hype. How many Hispanic contractors do you see at construction sites Part of that immigrant mentality. Its not racial in the sense its not biological. You see the same with African immigrants Obviously there are black American business owners just not a lot
I'm well aware....I'm a second generation immigrant myself. I was saying that non American blacks come here with the same mentality. But I see you understand that.
I think those are pretty good contributing factors. Poverty, lack of education, and a criminal history often can contribute to one becoming a murderer. I think we can tie all 3 of those to the high rate of children raised by single parents as well. Well I'm only talking about those in America, and the culture of America is the larger culture that the subcultures exist in. It's certainly not just one, there are many poisonous subcultures in America, it's just that some are more popular than others. It causes a cycle of poverty, when you are raised poor by a single parent and the first thing you do is go out and become a single parent yourself, you have just completed the cycle. When a subculture praises life choices that lead to the perpetuation of poverty, it becomes a problem. If you look at black families in America, you didn't see the ridiculous percent of single parent families. Hell 50 years ago the rate at which black children were raised by a single parent was lower than it is for white children today....so clearly something changed in that time and it wasn't biology. Culture is the #1 suspect.
Arrest parents for being crappy parents? J/K, she and her colleagues are beside themselves sometimes. It's why I got out of teaching. I was an English teacher at Dulles High School in Fort Bend ISD from 1997 to 1999. Even in that not-so-bad area, I had to deal with several situations- some of my students from Missouri City- one was constantly being abused- dad was in and out of prison. I was very straight, but easy with him. Meaning that I held him to the same standards, but when he had his outbursts, I was very calm (unlike how I am sometimes on here), let him get it out of his system, etc. But it was a bad situation. As teachers, there's little you can do if they're far-gone. It was a miracle to get some of them to do anything. The way I did it as an English teacher was, if you have some students who absolutely refuse to write at all in your class, you let them write about something they're into- just so you can get anything out of them. Back in 1993, when I was teaching at Cy Creek HS, in my 2nd year, they gave me a class of 14 kids who all didn't pass the reading and writing portion of the TAAS test. Principal said, "Dorotik, anything you can do to help them improve their English, do it." So, I had some of them write about the Rockets. Four of them had their letters published in the Houston Chronicle (well, like one paragraph from the 3-4 paragraph letters they mailed in). For one, Ernesto, it was the first time he completed an assignment in 2 years. The point is not that what I did was special- we had several teachers who used creative methods- it was just that we're trying to do anything we can to help them develop academically, and emotionally - knowing how bad life outside of school was for some of them. As much as we helped them, for some it wasn't enough. They were already gone and on the path to a life of crime. Teachers can help- and maybe even convert some- but without the family support, there's little you can do.
So given the effect of slavery, Jim crow, segregation and war on drugs had on the population, what should the country do to reverse those 3 factors as much as possible? More lenient sentencing (especially for minority youths < 25 of age)? More aggressive affirmative action? I mean we're only 2 generations (50 years) removed from segregation, and more recent policies (i.e. 3rd strike, efforts to reduce affirmative actions) are in the directions not only not to reverse the cycle but add to it.
I agree the original question is a good question . I think all cultures/races in the US can and should take a look at themselves in a mirror . Discussion with other groups can certainly lend insight and add an outside perspective . That being said , this topic is not good for a message board discussion . First of all , this kind of discussion needs to happen face to face . You need black people in the discussion , perhaps predominantly so , and the veil the Internet provides can disrupt that needed presence . Secondly , this is really an argument about perspectives . It doesn't matter what statistics say if the people in question hold different beliefs . Both answers are "correct" but only by influencing actions could one ever "fix" problems. If we are approaching this topic by how to solve said issues / inequalities / whatever ... Then maybe diagnosing the causes are not as effective as finding solutions . Whenever we delve into "culture" the problem becomes as much psychological as it is economic etc... Overall I think the question is great and thought provoking ( if approached from an honest perspective) but it's beyond the scope of message board discussion to appropriately respond.
They should abolish slavery (done more than 150 years ago), end Jim Crow laws (done more than 50 years ago), and the war on drugs.....well while i disagree with most drug prohibition, the idiots who got in trouble due to "the war on drugs" did it to themselves so nothing needs to be done about that. I think what needs to happen is that black people (when I say that, I realize that it's not all, I'm specifically talking about those the statement would be relevant to) need to get rid of the idea that anyone owes them anything, because they aren't owed anything by anyone. There are not legitimate barriers to success other than those they place on themselves, and they are more than capable of doing it on their own just like everyone else. The longer people whine about things not being fair or wanting others to do things for them, the longer things will remain bad. I personally believe that it's racist to believe that black people have to be given help to succeed. They are every bit as capable as any other group and more so than some given that those here already know the language.
The main spike of single motherhood occurred about 1970-1990. Segregation ended in 1964. An oppressed people suddenly having more freedom and rights, along with the sexual revolution could certainly make some sense for an increase in casual sex leading to more single pregnancies. 1980's had huge cuts to social programs, sex education, and women's health programs. There was also the war on drugs, crack epidemic, etc. All also make sense for a spike. Numbers and charts: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ver-the-last-50-years/?utm_term=.8c6172663d4f
That's because you personally ignore the impact of 200 years of slavery, 60 years of Jim Crow, housing discrimination that continues to this day, and racial bias in the judicial system. A destructive subculture that glorifies criminality amplifies the problem, but cultures don't arise and change just like that. They are linked to the history of a people and evolve as their circumstances evolve. If you can point to counter examples from history where a downtrodden people suddenly rose up because they had a collective epiphany and changed their culture without any other intervention to improve their circumstances, I'd love to learn about it.
I don't ignore the impact of those things, I just don't think they are relevant today and they certainly aren't an excuse for bad life choices. I get that you'll likely be using those excuses decades from now, but the excuses only hold people back. Everyone has to take accountability for their own actions, if a black person fails, it's not because anyone held them down, it's because they failed. End of story. It sure as hell isn't because one of their ancestors owned another one of their ancestors. It's well past time to move on.
"Not an excuse" is different from "Doesnt have an impact". The first is debatable, more a philosophical position, the latter is an empirical position -- one that's clearly wrong. Your personal philosophy may be that being born into a tougher situation shouldn't be used as an excuse. Fine. But that doesn't mean it makes sense to pretend that some groups aren't on average born into tougher situations and that doesn't effect the dynamics of a population. Given the difference in circumstances, the difference in outcomes is somewhat predictable. And there's nothing racist about recognizing that. Whether we should actively try to do something about it or just say "Tough ****, life isn't fair, you can still succeed if you work really, really hard" comes down to difference in philosophy. You've made it very, very clear where you stand. Personally, I don't think that's particularly useful to solve the actual problem posed by the OP.
It probably did have an impact once upon a time, and life is not fair, thus either rise to the top or whine about how bad you have it and sink to the bottom. There's plenty of people who are born into tough situations of any race....again, life's not fair. Proposing racist policy in an effort to accomplish equality of outcomes isn't the solution, you'd just be bringing more racism into the world. Equality of outcomes is not something that is a problem. All anyone is owed is that they won't have any barriers put on them by the state....if you work for equality of outcome, you essentially have the state put barriers on other people in order to help a specific group, it's the opposite of true equality. People who are worth a damn will rise to the top, people who aren't will settle to the bottom and that's how it should be.
I couldn't care less about who owes who, that's not the point. The point is that once a large population is in a cycle of poverty (or any other institutionalized way of life), it's hard for the population as a whole to get out. Like you've mentioned, Slavery ended 150 years ago (after being a 250 years institution), it took another 100 years to even have official policies that said all men should be treated equal. I would also argue that it took another 30 years before true safeguards were put in place (i.e. redlining laws and etc.). Society, population and mindsets progressive slowly. The broad society that created this cycle need to decide if they're ok with it stopping at a "natural pace" or if they want it to stop sooner. If they want it to stop sooner, then there needs to be aggressive policies to support it. Unless there's policies to force action, institutionalized behavior would not progress over night. It's been maybe 25 years since the playing field was "evened" (though I still argue there's more to go, especially the disparity in war on drugs policies, ie.crack vs. powdered cocaine, but close enough). If you want things to go at a natural pace, I'd argue it might take another hundred years (6 generations) before we can expect any real progress (provided there's no other major setbacks).
Its about equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome. People who grow up in neighborhoods with better schools and less crime, and with more supportive families, have more opportunity than those who don't. Even getting equality of opportunity is not totally realistic, but it's an ideal we should strive for where possible. Your assumption that people of quality always rise to the top is correct, assuming equal opportunity. So, yes, we can stick to a "no excuses" principle and just let those who are smart enough and committed enough break through despite their circumstances. But, realistically, that's not going to solve the population-level problem given the underlying disparities in opportunity. And I don't see a reason to assume it would just naturally even out over time. So, then, the question is do we care enough about the problem pointed out by the OP to really solve it? Regrettably, it doesn't appear so.
