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Was the Wagner trade a good deal for us?

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Rockets34Legend, Jun 8, 2004.

  1. Stack24

    Stack24 Contributing Member

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    With Wagner gone and most likley Hidalgo either being traded or leaving next year. (I think they are going to trade him to get something out of it) we will have a lot of payroll we can use for bigger guys, like signing Kent again since we only got him for 2 years.

    There was more planning involved than we can see in the trading of Wagner.

    Im pretty sure we can go after some big names in the offseason or through trade that we can eventually sign if we loose Hidalgo's contract this next year.

    Someone like Beltran maybe to play CF who knows. But the future is looking very bright in a lot of ways.
     
  2. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    Remember, however, that Berkman will be due a huge contract as will Oswalt (either through arbitration or a long-term deal). There is also deferred salary from Kent and I believe Bagwell that is on the books.

    Essentially, Berkman will inherit Hidalgo's contract and Oswalt will inherit Wagner's.
     
  3. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    I can't believe that you can't believe that we're having this discussion again. :D
     
  4. Stack24

    Stack24 Contributing Member

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    Good Points, something i clearly overlooked. I was taking them 2 for granted.
     
  5. gunn

    gunn Contributing Member

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    Bucholz is rated as one of the top 50 prospects in baseball.
     
  6. Bogey

    Bogey Contributing Member

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    Another way to look at it (for those that keep bringing Clemens and Pettitte into the argument) is were there other offers for Wagner? Could we have gotten better prospects? I'm not sure, just asking.
     
  7. Buck Turgidson

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    Missed this earlier. From John Sickels on espn.com:

    "Buchholz has a major-league fastball at 90-92 mph, sometimes a bit faster. He controls the pitch well and mixes it effectively with his other offerings. His out-pitch is a nasty curveball, rated as one of the best in the minor leagues by many experts. He also has a decent changeup. The curve and change make the fastball look a lot faster than the radar guns say it is. He has a good feel for pitching and is intellectually mature for his age, though he sometimes tries to throw too hard. His fastball is more effective at 91 mph with movement than it is at 94 mph but too straight."

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=1693861

    The curve is the key. A scout buddy of mine who saw him in Spring Training said it was the best curve of any pitching prospect he's seen in AA/AAA. True 12-6 break. Think Darryl Kile.
     
  8. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    Stack, they were in a pennant race! They finished one game out. Wagner was arguably their best player having his best season in his career. No way they trade him mid-season and still say with a straight face they're trying to build a winner. Not with a veteran team like theirs that needs to win sooner rather than later.
     
  9. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    I saw it on one of the spring training games that was on TV (against the Mets)... and even the N.Y. announcers were shocked to see the break of that ball. They kinda didn't know what to say... they were just like, "Uhh... that was filthy."

    With that good of a curve-ball, he doesn't even need to throw the fastball that hard... and my guess is that he was trying to blaze fastballs by hitters at the start of AAA, and as the article said... it becomes awfully straight.

    His last two starts down there have been much better (13 innings, 3 ER, 11K's)... hopefully he's just working on location and changing speeds... if he gets those things down, he'll be contending for a starting spot here next year.
     
    #29 Nick, Jun 9, 2004
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2004
  10. ChrisP

    ChrisP Contributing Member

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    Was the Wagner trade a good deal for us?

    With Dotel and Lidge coming up behind him, was it really even that big of a loss to trade him (and his desired salary)?

    I ask this honestly because I'm not a big baseball fan and don't really know the answer... but it seems those two are filling in pretty well.
     
  11. Stack24

    Stack24 Contributing Member

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    Very true....i wasn't thinking about how close we were, since all i can remember is that we didnt go.

    Sometimes you leave out big stuff like that when you look at only the outcome of last year.
     
  12. Bassfly

    Bassfly Member

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    It was pretty well recognized amongst the organization that Wagner wouldnt have been resigned after this season. So trading him was the right thing to do as we got 2 top tier prospects, and a capable pitcher for him compared to letting him walk away for nothing.
     
  13. RunninRaven

    RunninRaven Contributing Member
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    Those of you wondering about the Wagner trade need to also check out the OTHER other pitcher involved in that trade, Ezequiel Astacio. His stats ain't too bad this season either (although I believe he is only in single A ball).
     
  14. Buck Turgidson

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    Zeke's in Round Rock.
     
  15. gunn

    gunn Contributing Member

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    Not that this is realated, but I would like to see Taveras move up to New Orleans at some point this year. He is absolutely tearing up AA right now. The Astros must be extremely excited with the way he is playing.
     
  16. pariah

    pariah Contributing Member

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    Ask me in three years...I think Taylor is going to be a stud and I also am of the opinion that he is right on track for a developing power pitcher throwing in a new class.
     
  17. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    I think they're weary of that, since Chris Burke needs to see plenty of AB's near the leadoff spot at New Orleans (if you look at his numbers, he's tearing it up as well right now... both slugging wise, and he has 15 steals).

    But, if he continues at this pace, he'll get a shot there for sure.
     
  18. NIKEstrad

    NIKEstrad Contributing Member
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    There are a lot of guys on that Round Rock team that are playing fantastic ball. That team is 40-19! Jimerson's had some big games with Taveras out; he was pretty raw for a college prospect, but he's showing that power/speed/defense potential that clubs love to see. Whiteman has been hitting the ball and is an experiment at 3B- he's a potential AAA call-up soon.

    Nick- they could always bring him up, and stick Burke in the 2 hole (which, considering his slugging ability too, might not be a bad idea), or hit Taveras at the back of the lineup. If both of these guys make it to the majors, it'll be interesting to see how we arrange our lineup- Everett seems to have locked in the #2 slot. Wow, Everett, Taveras, and Burke could make pitchers really antsy to let those guys on base.

    As for the trade, we got 3 pitchers. Because we had Dotel and Lidge already in waiting, I think if 2 of them end up making solid impacts on this team (Buchholz and/or Astacio in the rotation, Duckworth getting his head screwed on), it was the right deal.

    I wouldn't be too surprised even if we trade Dotel this offseason, and let Lidge take over. Leading relievers in Ks as a setupman is straight nasty. With Miceli and perhaps Harville or one of our other pitching talentd honing his stuff, you could use the money saved by moving Dotel and add another setup guy, and then use the additional money to improve the team.
     
  19. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Lineup of the future (circa 2006-2007)

    Taveres CF
    Everett SS
    Burke 2B
    Berkman 1B
    Buck C
    Ensberg/Whiteman 3B
    Lane RF
    Free Agent Outfielder LF
    Pitcher
     
  20. xiki

    xiki Contributing Member

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    Poor Morgie, he never gets 3B by himself.
     

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