Warning: Another sad ME thread

Agreed. The Israeli government is MUCH more hawkish than the people at large.

 

Madmax good to see we agree on a few things.

Madmax said: come on...that treatment isn't much different that how we're treating Al Qaeda suspects in Cuba...

I agree on this ,but don't think it ist right there either.

The secret evidence that can't be revealed is apparently a procedure endorsed in the Patriot Act. It is Ashford's idea of criminal procedure.

The Padilla case in which he is being held on a ship offshore without access to lawyers is also a travesty.

 

i'm saying if the US were or is doing this, you'd have no problem with it...particularly if we were dealing with terrorism as an everyday occurrence as they do in israel...i know you well enough to know that if that were the case, you'd be screaming "by any means necessary!"

i don't believe the israelis always act in a manner that is just and right...NO ONE DOES!!! No nation ever has...no individual ever has, save one. but if you ask me to choose right or wrong, the nation that reacts this way to having its citizens targetted..or the group that does the citizen targetting...i choose the nation, every day of the week and twice on sunday!

 

Hey MadMax, I'm not seeking out your posts just to argue with you I promise. I just disagree. I don't think every nation in the area had something do with the hijackers and 9/11. The govts. themselves didn't support them, but individuals in those countries did. But if that's the requirement then U.S. citizens helped fund them also.

I do pretty much agree with you on this one! I think Osama will use events and people to rally support for him. The causes he pays lip service to are at times good causes. His actions, however, are mass murder, and terrorism. I think he will say whatever it takes to try and justify his terrorism.

Israel has been fighting terrorism longer than we have, but they've been using terrorism as well(the bombing of the King David Hotel). Israel is cooperative because we give them aid. Although there was that spy from the Israeli govt. caught Spying on the U.S. We hold Israel to a higher standard in some areas, but not in many. They build illegal settlements, oppress people based on nationality etc. And they don't do it just to curb terrorism. Allowing the Palestinians to build wells, irrigate their crops, and have enough water would not bolster terrorism in any way.

 

to me there are, yes...and i'm not saying one is right, the other is wrong...or at least that's not what i'm intending to say...

franchise --- good points

 

I find it funny (disgusting actually but we'll go with funny) that the same people who talk of the moral high ground when it comes to Iraq are defending inhumane treatment of prisoners by the Israelis.

I'm going to make this clear for everybody...THESE PEOPLE ARE ZEALOTS!!!!!!!!! ALL OF THEM. Israeli...Palestinian...ALL ZEALOTS!!!! The primary difference between the two is that the Israelis have tanks and F-16s while the Palestinians have bombs made out of Tinkertoys, Lincoln Logs and C-4.

 

no...the primary difference is one group intentionally targets civilians.

 

Yeah...and lobbing a one ton missile into a residential highrise neighborhood was a surgical strike intended to take out one guy. Please don't go off on the human shield rhetoric...you can't use people a mile down the street as a shield unless your adversary is using a grenade to kill a fly. Oh wait...they were "collateral damage." I understnad that in war there is collateral damage...but most nations tailor the assault to MINIMIZE collateral damage. The Israelis seem to enjoy MAXIMIZING the collateral damage. Kind of like if I were to punch a random person in the face and saying: "that's for something I may have missed!!!" Incredible.

 

you know...the United States took out a wedding party in Afghanistan during bombing raids...I notice you're not quite as upset about that as you are about this story.

i don't think the israelis enjoy maximizing collateral damage...but i imagine if you and your family were made targets on a daily basis you would be a lot less concerned with collateral damage of the other side.

 

I can't believe that you're bringing that up. That was the result of a botched intelligence report. That wedding was never our target and you know it. The Israelis TARGETED that neighborhood. You can't use one to justify the other. They are fundamentally different.

I understand your point about daily terrorism. But I also know that you don't sack the QB and then go after people he didn't even know...let alone his family. Cooler heads prevailing is what has averted global war to this point.

 

i think we disagree on this stuff.

 

Actually Max, I have to agree with ref. They are completly different. As of now Israel is showing it really doesn't want peace

 

every time israel comes to the table, sidewalk cafes and school buses get blown up...they clamp down and it stops for a while.

i don't think hamas really wants peace either...i think the extermination of jews from the area is their sole intent.

 

So then would you agree with me that both sides need to be replaced before peace can be accomplished?

 

I think it's safe to say that.

But don't misunderstand me. I'm not the Palestinian's biggest fan. I just think that Israel isn't the innocent party most make them out to be.

 

I'm not claiming Israel is an innocent party...as I mentioned to you today over lunch, no party is innocent...anywhere. No nation is perfect...no person is perfect. That ties in pretty well with my theology!

Azadre -- ok..agreed!

by the way...did you catch my apology last week for blowing steam off to you??? sorry about that.

 

Yup...we should be careful about the topic of lunchtime conversation. I'd hate to start a food fight.

 

Well good, then we agree.


Also doesn't that tbagin or whatever all ways post ME threads? Was he banned?

 

i don't know...is that the guy who posted the pictures in that thread?? the guy you're ignoring??

again..my apologies.