US now pushes UN to back 'immediate' Gaza ceasefire to free hostages

The majority of Germans did not actively murder people with their own hands during the holocaust. Almost all Germans suffered from the bombings Germany went through during world war II.

It would be nice if this were true. However, the level of hate against Jews and Israel runs extremely deep, and that was the case long before any alleged "occupation". There were many massacres committed against Jews in that region by Muslim Arabs throughout history, long before Israel even existed.

Portraying the "Palestinians" as people who "just want to live peacefully without war" is, at best, painting a very rosy picture of their state of mind. We both know it's not true. They want Israel to be gone and THEN "live without war".

 

https://engelsbergideas.com/noteboo...sacre-on-october-7-has-deep-historical-roots/

Hamas’ genocidal massacre on October 7 has deep historical roots

The 1929 Hebron massacre perpetrated by followers of Haj Amin Husseini, the Mufti of Jerusalem, demonstrates the deep roots of Islamist ideology.

A massacre of unarmed Jews is under way. Homes have been ransacked and their inhabitants tortured, raped and slaughtered. Hearing screams in one house, a policeman rushes in to find ‘an Arab in the act of cutting off a child’s head with a sword’. Behind him another with a dagger looms over a ‘Jewish woman smothered in blood’. Another policeman finds one Jewish body dumped in the street that had been ‘burned so much that the legs were separated from the body’.

This is not an account of the heinous massacres perpetrated by Hamas in Israel on 7 October, although the details are practically identical. These are British reports of the 1929 massacres in Hebron and other Jewish areas of mandate Palestine. More than 130 Jews were murdered in ‘acts of unspeakable savagery’ by ‘ruthless and bloodthirsty evildoers’ according to the British authorities. They blamed these atrocities on ‘racial animosity on the part of the Arabs’.

Some of the most callous and immoral Western progressives and apologists for terror have tried to justify, excuse and even celebrate this past weekend’s pogroms as acts of ‘resistance’ against occupation. As if anything could justify the rape of innocent women, the butchery of the elderly and the murder of babies. But the example of Hebron gives even further proof, as if any was needed, to the lie that such extreme religiously motivated terror is a response to occupation. This is not any way a response to occupation. There had been a continuous Jewish presence in Hebron stretching back to biblical times prior to the 1929 pogrom. Yet, before the state of Israel even existed, Arabs slaughtered their Jewish neighbours without remorse and without regard for age, sex or how long they had resided in the land.

Just as now, evidence of these barbaric crimes still could not convince the most bigoted. The socialist Fabian member, and co-founder of the London School of Economics, Beatrice Webb, responded to the massacres in Hebron with disdain: ‘I can’t understand why the Jews make such a fuss over a few dozen of their people killed in Palestine. As many are killed every week in London in traffic accidents, and no one pays any attention.’

Fanning the flames of these barbaric assaults in 1929 was Haj Amin Husseini, the Mufti of Jerusalem. It was the mufti who propagated the idea that the Jews were planning to conquer the Temple Mount in Jerusalem and destroy the Al-Aqsa Mosque. He drew on religious rhetoric to urge violent resistance, infusing the emerging Palestinian Arab national movement with a radical Islamic aspect. He would go on to be a confidant of Adolf Hitler and a zealous supporter of the ‘Final Solution’, recruiting three mostly Muslim Waffen SS divisions in the Balkans. Despite the overwhelming evidence of his collaboration with the Nazis, the Allied powers decided against prosecuting him for ‘war crimes’ for fear of insulting Arab sensibilities in the geopolitically pivotal Middle East.

After the war, the mufti escaped house arrest and fled to Egypt, where he was lauded by Hasan al-Banna, founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, as the ‘hero who challenged an empire and fought Zionism with the help of Hitler and Germany’. The Nazis ‘are gone’, al-Banna proclaimed, ‘but Amin Al-Husseini will continue the struggle’ with the help of the ‘Arab youth, Cabinet Ministers, rich men, and princes’.

As the leader of the Arab Higher Committee in Palestine, Husseini was influential in rejecting the UN partition plan in 1947-8 and rallying Arab leaders to wage war for the ‘elimination of the Jewish state’. Yet Husseini’s most enduring and darkest legacy is his collaboration with al-Banna to forge a radically anti-semitic, Islamist movement to carry on their struggle against the Jews. Forty years after Israel’s independence, Hamas, an offshoot of al-Banna’s Muslim Brotherhood, was established. Its founding charter appealed to divine sanction for genocide: ‘The Day of Judgement will not come about’, it maintained, ‘until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.’ The gruesome anti-semitic barbarities that the world witnessed in Israel are just the latest, if most horrific, crimes in a terror campaign stretching back a century.

In 1929, British authorities responded to the massacres by evacuating the entire Jewish community from Hebron and placating the mufti further by reducing Jewish immigration. This time, as the current British government has made clear, there can be no concession to terror. The Hebron massacres should serve as a reminder that, unless this murderous ideology is extinguished, even worse crimes await.

 

So what? Brutal murders downplayed as "communal violence" and somehow justified in your mind because of some announcement or plans? Those murders were an expression of a genocidal mindset already. There was no "occupation".

 

OK wait, just so that we get this on record.

You think that whatever plans to allow Jews to have some territory were in discussion matter as to whether a massacre against 60something civilians was justified or not?

 

This can change - and it does.

The Assyrians have an even older history and said the same thing and now most are glad to just be away from bloodshed.

Prosperity and peace tends to loosen grievances and change priorities.

I know a number of Palestinians in the USA - some will give lip service to returning to the Middle East, but none of them are going to do it because they are too successful in the USA and their children have even less interest.

 

Dafuq does this mean?

You are equating a massacre of innocent civilians with "Zionism"?

That's Islamist speak.

"Zionism" just means the belief that the Jews should have a homeland.

Only fanatical Islamists would want the Jews to be eradicated from this map and for them to not have a homeland.

 

The size of Israel is irrelevant to those that were living there, were told that where they lived was going to become a Jewish controlled state and that they needed to leave - and were pushed out.

As for Islam in the Middle East - it isn't tolerant. Christians and Jews both have fled the region, including my family. There are pockets of places that are not as intolerant, in Iraq under Sadam Hussein, he had Christians that were not bothered. Still, because large parts of the Middle East are all Muslims, and because they do not always separate church and state - there are a lot of Muslims in that region that want a Caliphate.

 

They all drove out the Jews. However, there are 2 million Muslim Arabs in Israel, with full citizenship rights.

So why are you SO concerned with a few Jews trying to live in a predominantly Arab ("Palestinian" Arab) territory? And not concerned at all with the fact that the Jews were driven out of many of these territories?

 

This is very true, and I as a German am very aware of that.

Even more so, I learned that NEVER AGAIN means NEVER AGAIN and I resent it when people zoom in at the wrong level and act like "the Jews" are the bad guys. They are not.

There is always some historical context if you go back far enough (like how this ruthless murderer Putin tries to justify his brutal invasion of Ukraine), but what I know is that the peaceful people who died on October 7th did not deserve to die. And the Gazan government said they want to do it again and again and again and never want to stop.

Do innocent children in Gaza "deserve to die"? DEFINITELY NOT. But Israel literally has no other way to eliminate the threat from Hamas.

I sincerely hope that somehow after Hamas is eradicated, some path towards a peaceful reconciliation can be found.

I just don't know how, because of the whole intertwinement of supremacist religious ideology (Islam) with this whole conflict. Qatar and Iran will keep funding terror against Israel, and they will want to continue to use the "Palestinians" as proxy, while not giving two ****s about actual innocent "Palestinians" (they are certainly not offering to accept them into their countries).

 

Isreali Manifest Destiny?

Rocker

 

Winner rules, I believe. But I think before we get to how people will be integrated and all, we may see a high risk of regional wars (and Israel shouldn't be so confident that they can win those wars) depending on how they become a 1-state without the WB and Gaza.

Maybe consider two American examples and compare them to today. (Please feel free to provide counter examples).

During the Native American genocide period, actions like colonization, forced relocation, and even genocide were unfortunately considered the norm, leading to a lack of moral backlash and international condemnation at that time. That's certainly not the case today.

The nuclear bombings in Japan were in the context of a global world war where up to 85 million people had already died, including up to 10 million at the hands of the Japanese military, before the bombings took place. The bombings killed 160,000 Japanese, mostly civilians. Extremely horrific, but in the context, a fraction of what the Japanese military had done and a fraction of the overall World War II death toll. Thus, again, there was a lack of moral backlash and international condemnation at the time. Also, there was no power that had access to such a devastating weapon at the time, and no one dared to push back militarily on the US. This is also not the case today.

The case today is: Hamas murdered 1,200 Israelis on October 7th. A convincing and ultimate victory by Israel could involve taking complete control of Gaza and the West Bank, pushing out or eliminating 5 million Palestinians from those lands or incorporating them as second-class citizens (I think Israel cannot give them full rights since they will quickly become the majority). How they get there is important to potential international moral outrage, backlash and US support. If Israel were to go down this path with immoral tactics and speeds, instead of peace, they might have to be ready to defend themselves for decades without counting on support from the US or Europe.

 

And as noted earlier they allies rebuilt Germany. They didn’t economically blockade Germany or restrict Germans from traveling. They also didn’t take German territory to settle on.

Accept as even you note other Muslim countries have recognized and are willing to make peace with Israel and the Palestinian Authority recognized Israel. In return they’ve gotten their economy strangled, land taken while Likud has admitted they don’t want a moderate group that could unite Palestinians.

 

What?