Trump Calls NATO Obsolete and Dismisses EU in German Interview

So let's see.
1. Rise of nationalism across the globe. Check.
2. Authoritarians trying to make international relations based on whim, personal vibes, and perhaps personal economic complications. Check.
3. Trouble in the Balkans. Check.

This seems strangely familiar?

 

Fasten your seat belt, Trump hasn't even taken office yet. Yes, be afraid, be very afraid.

 

GREATest Generation, B-Bob.

Republicans want a reset.

We already kill tens of thousands of foreigners a year. What's a few tens of millions more?

 

Trump is right. NATO is obsolete. Originally set up to oppose the Soviet Union which no longer exists. The Russians are not about to mass tanks on the German Border to take over Europe. Crimea was a one only and was in response to the US backed coup in Ukraine by anti-Russian elements in Kiev. The virtually one hundred percent Russian ethnic folks in Crimea wanted to return to the Russian state after the coup.


Now the Europeans and the US have legitimate security concerns e.g terrorism so a new alliance should replace NATO. There was talk about having Russia even become part of NATO after the fall of the Berlin Wall, but sadly conservative/militarist interests in the US preferred to keep Russia as an enemy. Anyone a bit older and not a huge Cold War Fan can remember the near panic among elite right wingers in the US that we would have a Peace Dividend and not have to spend nearly half of all government spending on the military. OMG we might spend some of it on state supported colleges, health and human services and stuff the fat cats don't make as much on and don't personally need. The US reneged on agreements very quickly to not move missiles to the recently freed states up to the Russian border.

In addition at the moments the hawks in the foreign policy establishment are pissed at the Russians for maybe ending the War in Syria and defeating our moderate lol jihadis who we wanted to overthrow Assad as he is a hassle for Israel and Saudi Arabia our big allies in the Mideast.

After these folks,aided even to this day by Cold War liberal types have poisoned the environment, it is unrealistic to welcome Russia into NATO at this time. Still if Trump can at least succeed in not wasting a trillion or two in preparing for a major war with Russia, that virtually all realize would be suicidal, it might be his biggest accomplishment. Granted it will just be rebated to what Dubya called his "base" i.e rich folks, but even that is better than just building more weapons.

 

Da comrade.

They just needed to bomb indescrimantly and kill thousands of innocent civilians.

 

Yeah, it was I am sure fairly indiscriminate as our bombing usually is also.but let's face it, we have killed probably ten times as many innocent civilians in the Middle East since the Fall of the Berlin Wall as the Russians. I know, but American exceptionalism.. Also most of the folks killed in Syria were done so before the Russians jumped in a serious way about a year or so. Granted the side we supported composed of mainly jihadis backed by Turkey, Saudi, and the Emirates did not mainly kill through aerial bombardment.

 

Glynch, your post, with all due respect, is so dramatically in conflict with the facts that I have to wonder what in the hell you were doing when you wrote it. I'll comment on one sentence from the first paragraph, not being in the mood to dissect the entire muddled mess.

"The virtually one hundred percent Russian ethnic folks in Crimea wanted to return to the Russian state after the coup."

Glynch, this is an absolute crock and is easily dismissed. The 2001 census taken by Ukraine, long before the "coup" you mumble about to rid the country of one of Putin's puppets, shows the ethnic makeup of Crimea, 15 years ago. Numbers below:

• 
  
  
  • Autonomous Republic of Crimea - 2,024.000(100%)
    • Russians - 1,180,400 (58.3%)
    • Ukrainians - 492,200 (24.3%)
    • Crimean Tatars - 243,400 (12.0%)
    • Belarusians - 29,000(1.4%)
    • Tatars - 11,000 (0.5%)
    • Armenians - (0.4%)

You have embarrassed yourself, glynch. Bummer, dude. At least you must have had fun writing what is largely a fantasy designed to support a construct in your mind that doesn't conform with reality, in my humble opinion.

 

Majoirty of deaths in the Middle East that you point to as a direct result of US involvement are instances of the bigotry of low expectations. Iraq is the best example of this. Majoirty of civilian deaths after the invasion was a result of the civil war from Iraqi on Iraqi violence due to the power vacuum.

What Russia did to Syria is flat out ignore international norms.

You're not going to convince me someone who has actually physically witnessed the numuruois amounts of steps and considerations before even considering an airstrike. You have zero nuance and experience on this subject matter. As a foot mobile infantry squad the majoirty of my time in Madjah, we hardly ever contemplated calling in an airstrike when recieving contact because we knew how long the confirmation proccess took. Just stop speaking in matters you are clueless about. Ournmilitaryn has made grave mistakes in terms of civilian casualties. We even have extremely bad apples who have done grave injustices to the local civilian population but they are always the exception not the norm.

What Russia did to Syrians is disgusting. Stop being an apoglist for them.

 

I stand corrected on the ethnic breakdown point , but this incorrect point does not even mean that a strong majority of Crimea might have still wanted to rejoin Russia or whether NATO is obsolete, or our role in continuing the Cold War etc.

Also, IMHO it is sad that in general that you are still locked into completely seeing Russia as it was taught to you and I during the 1950's, that the Ruskies want to launch an invasion of Western Europe. Hawkish liberals like yourself are one of the main reasons we have such increased inequality, lousy social services etc. at home. yet waste so much of our wealth on weapons.

 

Hawkish liberals? In no scenario where liberals want Russia to be held accountable for their actions involves war. I'm sorry that you project your hawkish paradigm of 'if there is conflict there must be war.' Any retaliation to Russia would be almost purely econimcal and the US is in a strong position to impose harsh sanctions because Russia doesn't produce anything worthwhile and for a superpower their citizens don't have much spending power to purchase American goods at a worthwhile rate.

The world would be a better place with Putin no longer in power.

 

So deliberately prolonging a civil war even if it kills many more people with smaller arms is nothing and less disgusting than compared to fewer people if killed by bombing. Ok, we have our bad apples, Dubya, Cheny, Rumsfeld, a majority of our Congress, Hillary etc ad the Russians have their bad Apples Putin, and I am sorry I can't name hardly any other folks there.

Let's not apologize for the mass murderers in either Russia or the Unites States.

 

There is a massive difference between making a mistake in toppling a dictator and overestimating the ability of the Iraqi people to remain civil enough to not kill each other and just flat out not caring about massively dense civilian population centers and dropping bombs on them without any consideration for location.

The vast majority of civilian deaths that resulted in the Iraq war was Iraqi on Iraqi. Blame the Iraqi people for killing each other. Don't be a bigot of low expectations. Many good Iraqi people who despised Saddam are ashamed and dispointed at their countrymen for ******** the bed.

 

Well there is Hiroshima and Vietnam where we killed over a million Vietnamese and our sanction against Sadam Hussein that our ambassador did not dispute killed 500,000 Iraqi infants and small children. Check out what we have done to Fallujah for instance.

Well we should blame Libyans only for the chaos and many deaths caused we created the failed state. Whoops another error. How about Fallujah? Hiroshima? Vietnam another prolonged civil war in which we killed at least a million Vietnamese.
Another classic : The US deliberately destroying the water and sewerage system in Iraq and boycotting chlorine so Iraqi would be pissed and hopefully get rid of Sadam. An estimated 500,000 Iraqi kids dead due to this.


The soft bigotry of low expectations for our leaders?

 

It's not just Deckard that's locked into it, it's the countries that have to live around Russia too. C'mon glynch. I don't favor our military budget but let's not be willfully ignorant of the way Russia has and does operate with its neighbors. You have to learn the lessons of appeasement.

 

not mainly Iraqi on Iraqi violence , More of handling Iraq to their worst enemy :Iranian's militants ,which is not a different campaign than what's taking place in Syria. It could be a calculated move by the US, it was easier to control shiea population,by Iranian influence through their agents from politicans or religious proxies ,this guy Mulla (alsyistani) who is BTW never seen in public, never attended any event, a ghost persona who issued a fatwa delivered by his agents commanding his followers to not resist Americans forces , pretty much his order would be honoured by 40% of Iraqis

 

It's a mistake we have been making for over 60 years....

Also if you really want to have a decent idea of what happened in Iraq then check this out http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/losing-iraq/

It wasn't simply Iraqis not being civil to each other. I can't believe you would be that simplistic with it. The problems were much bigger and greatly amplified by our sloppy post-invasion handling of Iraq. Bremer, Rumsfeld, Cheney, and Bush ****ed it up amazingly bad. It was a bad decision to go in there. However, our thinking of what would happen after taking out Saddam was even worse. We thought we would kick out Saddam and then watch rainbows and happiness follow. We would quickly go back to America and watch Iraq become our new friends...whoops! When we kicked all the Ba'athists (including the army) out of power and we created a massive problem. We stupidly ensured an ugly fight with this course of action. We never had a plan to deal with integrating the Ba'athists into Iraq. The disenfranchised people had weapons, training, and no real hope....so what in the world do you think would happen? It wasn't about not being civil to one another. We were directly responsible for accentuating the divides in the country.

 

Let's say you were really that interested in not having dear old Estonia and Latvia and Lithuania, Georgia etc. under the the sort of neo-colonial dominace by their much bigger neighbor Russia, much like we attempt to do with Latin America.

Do you go out of your way to sell them big missile systems to put on the Russian border (after you told the Russians before the reunification of Germany that you would not do so) or try such capers as instigating coups in Ukraine, which has about the relationship to Russia as we do to Canada. No! only if you are into some sort of crazy attempt to dominate the whole world or want to appease your for profit weapons manunfacturers or perhaps just bureaucratic power seeking by a bloated intelligence establishment.

 

Bigotry of low expectations. Yes I know all about the mishandling and the creation of the power vacuum in Iraq. Ive pointed out the mishandling if the Ba'athists party to idiots like bobbythegreat who probably still thinks to this day that the Iraq war had a just cause. The fact that a power vacuum resulted in Iraqis killing hundreds of thousands of other Iraqis is on them all because of a stupid religious blood bath between Shias and Sunnis. It's stupid and petty. I'm frankly tired of treating the Arab world as if they are children with zero self responsibility. It's the one aspect with modern liberalism that I have major issues with.


Anyways, name me a more benvolant world hegomic power in human history. Yes, we've overreached but unlike the Russians we take great lengths in at least attempting to prevent civilian casualties. If Russia was the alpha hegomonic power today, I doubt they would take the precautions we do.

 

Anyways, name me a more benvolant world hegomic power in human history. Yes, we've overreached but unlike the Russians we take great lengths in at least attempting to prevent civilian casualties. If Russia was the alpha hegomonic power today, I doubt they would take the precautions we do


Now who has the low expectations?

 

You know this entire back and forth is based in this statement from you - "
In addition at the moments the hawks in the foreign policy establishment are pissed at the Russians for maybe ending the War in Syria and defeating our moderate lol jihadis who we wanted to overthrow Assad as he is a hassle for Israel and Saudi Arabia our big allies in the Mideast."

Here you are praising Russia's 'accomplishemnt' which they achieved by indiscremnatly bombing dense population centers. Ya you really care about civilian casualties. Stfu with your false outrage. You are Russian puppet.

Then you move goal posts and inaccurately claim that US SOP in regards to airstrikes is just as careless as Russian SOP. Then I proved you wrong.

Stop moving goal posts and stop being apologetic towards Russia. You have no ****ing clue what you are debating about.