giving away billions of taxpayers dollars to farmers because of a trade war started by Trump isn't more moderate than either Sanders or Warren's trade policies. Trying to cut out pre-existing conditions from health care isn't a moderate position. Locking up children away from their parents when neither have been found guilty of a crime isn't a moderate position. Withdrawing from treaties that limits the Russian nuclear capability isn't a moderate position. These are just some examples where Trump is less moderate than Sanders or Warren.
So on Benghazi she didn't obstruct a lawful order made by Obama that resulted in dead Americans ? This is according to a House Report - You can read it here https://www.congress.gov/congressional-report/114th-congress/house-report/848/1 Uranium One - It is FACT that nine individuals related to the company donated a total of $145m to the Clinton Foundation. Is it not FACT that Donna Brazile gave Hillary debate questions prior to the Dem primary debates ? Remember , Brazile has since admitted to that and calls it a "mistake I will forever regret". So they didn't screw Bernie ? There was not exclusive fundraising agreement between the Hilary campaign and the DNC ? careful now …. We don't have to rehash Emailgate …. those emails were about Yoga. Somehow that doesn't add up to 90% being fabricated , they all have some truth to them whether they are 101% factual or not …. and that's enough for voters to question. Hillary had a lot of flaws as a candidate that did not have anything to do with her positions on any policy.
See , I don't buy that. Immigration policy isn't about race , its about protecting the American worker. There's this gap in understanding between legal and illegal immigration and the excuse from lefties is to play the race card rather give any ground on the illegal form. I'm perfectly fine with legal immigration … don't care what color , race or creed either …. as long as you can be a productive , law abiding member of our society. What I am not fine with is the 11million or so people who entered illegally. Rather than us having any say as to who joins our society , they took it upon themselves to tell us …. Being a small business owner in a construction related industry , I've seen and felt first hand the impact of illegal labor. It damn near put me out of business and did make me change my entire business model from new construction to service based which cut my revenue over 50% the first year. It was also a big part of my decision to sell my business to a competitor and retire 13 years ago rather than continue dealing with it all. Its hard to hire qualified American workers and remain competitive in the market while the competition is hiring $9hr illegals who don't mind working 16 hour days , no overtime , no insurance , no SSI , no unemployment , no retirement benefits …. Just pay them cash. You tell me how the hell an American worker is supposed to compete with that ? Which is funny as hell because many on the left talk about raising wages / livable wages when the refusal to uphold the laws and inaction by BOTH political parties has caused all this damage to wages and priced American workers out of an entire industry - one that has historically paid well enough to support families since post WWII. That also depresses the wages those American workers who remain in the field …. when you have so many willing to hire illegal labor , the need just isn't there for them - simple supply and demand. I started in the field in the 80's and made more back then than new hires do today. There are MPL's who make equal or less hourly today than I did when I got my masters license 30 years ago. The cost of that illegal labor has remained fairly flat. And we haven't even gotten to quality of work …And what's more , you aren't saving a single cent in their use of illegal labor , these contractors are pocketing the difference.
You can say the same about us independents tho I didn't just stay home , I voted for alternatives …. in 2004 I voted for Constitution party nominee Chuck Baldwin , in 2012 I literally wrote in Mickey Mouse.
Man , I don't even know what to say about this post …. Its flawed. Belongs in that worst post of the week thread …. Hate all Libs ? To Make Libs miserable ?! For <insert 4 letter F word here> sake man. Did DD hack your account ? Do you feel that way about conservatives and independents ? You want them to be miserable ?! Hate people for having a different view of what makes life better ?! …. This isn't about making someone miserable or hate , its about what makes the country better for all of us …. Cause if it sucks for you , it probably sucks for most of the rest of us too … I'm damn sure not going to waste my vote on the idea that it might make you or anyone else miserable.
Have you never watched a minute of FoxNews? “War on Christmas” by the libs. AOC and The Squad are coming for your rights. Antifa is setting up sleeper cells in your city near you to terrorize Trump voters with extreme violence. Yeah... sorry but Trump supporters have been cultivated for some time to build hatred through fear of liberals and the ominous “THEY”... whoever they are. Im surrounded by Trumpers all day every day and they just can’t keep it to themselves how much they are ginned up ready to talk crap to a liberal about politics and culture war. It’s just that it’s not obvious that I’m not a Trump voter since I’m a White man in my 30’s so maybe they get the wrong impression too early with me. But yes... I think you are wrong here respectfully. The reason why Trump voters are okay with shifting the presidency to an autocratic form of governance is because they believe they win and Liberals lose with more power shifted from a split government with checks and balances. The more power Trump has as an autocrat, the better for them and the worse for liberals. On policy voting, there are plenty of examples how Trump voters vote against perceived liberals. The most obvious one would be voting essentially against Obamacare after that Bill was passed in the last three voting cycles. Many voted against Democrats because they were angry that the believed they were giving away their hard earned money to pay for poor liberals to get free health insurance. There are plenty of other examples as well, and it hasn’t gotten any better since Trump took office. It’s more complicated than them “hating all libs” of course. Most are raised in the church and aren’t taught to hate as children, but the fact is they have been cultivated for years to do just that. They just don’t realize who “the enemy” really is in the real world because FoxNews creates this idea of who liberals are in their mind, and in real life it’s obviously different and more nuanced. So I don’t feel hatred towards them back... I feel bad that they’ve been lied to and been made miserable by the propaganda they consume that eats away at their soul which in its nature wants to be good.
Again, most of this has been debunked. We don't need to go I don't really want to bring up old arguments that have already been debunked. But you can check out these links. Benghazi - https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/29/us/politics/hillary-clinton-benghazi.html Uranium Ore - Here is a couple of the fact checks https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/11/06/561587174/the-alternative-russia-scandal https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-...ou-need-know-about-hillary-clinton-and-urani/ Donna Brazile absolutely did give Hillary a debate question. That is wrong. But do you think she got a huge benefit from knowing that a person was going to ask about the water quality in their town? Was her answer praised all over the news for weeks on end? Was it a defining moment of the debate? So all of the talk about that is blown way out of proportion. I was a Bernie supporter. Yes, he was screwed but it wouldn't have helped him to win the nomination. He lost. The DNC wrongdoing was exposed and measures were taken to correct it. There you have the problem, I was talking about. I don't believe you are a Trump supporter and you have bought into the bogus stories on Hillary. I was not a fan of Hillary and didn't vote for her. I feel bad having to defend her in any way, shape, or form.I was strongly against her being the nominee. I think she reeks of corruption. That made it easy for all of these bogus and out of proportion tales on her to sound worse than they were. But the point of those stories was not true, exaggerated, and it's the kind of things Republicans will try and do no matter who the Democrats nominate.
Sorry, but you are ignoring the facts. Have you not seen the 'Better Russia than Democrats' t-shirts from people at the Trump rally. Have you missed the posts on this board of people saying that they are happy with the lib tears, or how it is all worth it since the libs will cry over things? I don't want anyone to be miserable. Both sides are not the same in this issue. I wasn't advocating that the left do the same thing to Republicans or Conservatives. I was pointing out there is a significant population that hates Democrats and the Liberals and will support anything for which they are in favor. My point was that that kind of philosophy was wrong. I wasn't advocating adopting it but against the other political party or anyone.
I'm not quoting all of your post just for length but I read it. I never said immigration policy is about race, I said HIS immigration policy is about race. There is a huge difference. Why do I say this? Well, the person who constructed his immigration policy is someone very concerned about the racial makeup of this country. Stephen Miller's history and Bannon before that make it very clear that they care about the racial makeup of the country. While what you say about immigration is true you are being naive about the racial undercurrents of this. When the guy that's setting your immigration policy is a fan of The Camp Of The Saints that should be a HUGE warning that isn't just pushed aside along with all of the other stuff that leaked with Miller. This isn't even going to Bannon who ran Breitbart news that had a "Black Crime" tag for their articles. I mean come on man. I hate this idea that for something to be racist the person has to come out and explicitly shout it while donning a klan hood and mowing a swatstiska on their front lawn. I think running a website with "Black Crime" as a tag and telling others to read The Camp of The Saints while referring to the immigration situation is about as blatant can be. For them it IS about race. No, that doesn't mean for YOU it is about race. For THEM it is though and that's vital to note.
To win the 2020 election Democrats need to get people on board with the Lincoln Project. more at the link https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/17/...l?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
If that is what you consider the base then Biden and Pete are doing exactly what you say going after the base. Because the people that reliably vote blue are AA voters and left of center voters.
I am shocked that it appears that people with different perspectives are having a calm and rational discussion on the internet.... there is hope. I don't think it's a significant population but it's hard to tell. It seems to me that the people that do that kind of stuff are the vocal minority, and they get so much attention that they appear to be a larger group than they actually are. The same type of people exist on the far left as well, very vocal, combative, and they get a lot of attention. Normal people don't make headlines, we are all busy working and supporting our families, we are boring.
Like I said above , the fact that most of it wasn't 100% factual has no bearing on anything , each of those things had some "basis" in truth to them and that was enough for voters to question Hillary.
You guys act like this is a game … sports , where only one team is the winner and the other has to lose. That's just not the case. We all win and lose together , we suffer the consequences of bad decisions as a collective nation …. Not as individuals. Sure there may be a miniscule percentage of people on both sides who take pleasure in the other losing …. but what kind of people are they ? Their lives have to be pretty damn empty and meaningless for that to matter. Politics , as it relates to voters isn't a zero sum game.
A moderate Dem is exactly what will get Trump re-elected. A moderate will fail to bring out the progressives and lose the independents to Trump, and you will have a repeat of 2016. A far left candidate however will still bring out the moderate/mainstream Dems who will do anything to ensure Trump is a 1-term president, plus he/she would bring out the hibernating progressives in droves. In addition the independents who held their nose voting for Trump would easily swing progressive left. The election would not be close. They nominate a moderate and we will be seeing Trump for another 4 years if the economy holds through 2020 (which it likely will barring a black swan).
Like Bush Kerry or Obama Romney were such wonderful choices ? I voted for both Bush and Obama in their first terms and was feed up with both after 4 years … war machine , immigration , healthcare , spiraling debt. Baldwin and Mickey Mouse were more or less protest votes …. and no worse a choice than either. I just have to laugh when Dems tell us what Independents will do. I can tell you without question , the majority of independents are not going to go for some far left candidate. Independents and moderates are NOT the fringe of either party and are not going to support socialist views and wholesale change just to get rid of Trump.
