I'm guessing it's in the same bank that holds the five justices bank accounts for the Supreme Court decision. ------------------ www.swirve.com "Pre-born, you're fine, pre-school, you're f*****."-George Carlin
Have they found the Swiss account that holds Jefford's DNC funneled payoff money yet? Do you know anything about the Senator, or do you just repeat anything you hear? ------------------ http://www.swirve.com ... more fun than a barrel full of monkeys and midgets.
They didn't pay him cash. They paid him in )probable) committee assignments... ...the same way the GOP tried to pay him to stay. [This message has been edited by BrianKagy (edited June 01, 2001).]
They didn't pay him cash. They paid him in )probable) committee assignments... Except that he didn't join the Democratic Party. I was under the impression that only applied if he joined the Democrats. Maybe that's why he didn't join them -- he didn't want to be associated with that kind of crap from the Democrats either. ------------------ http://www.swirve.com ... more fun than a barrel full of monkeys and midgets.
I don't know-- I think you're giving Jeffords' independence more credit than you should. I really would be surprised if we don't see some fairly transparent quid pro quo.
I don't know-- I think you're giving Jeffords' independence more credit than you should. Yeah, I think it's more that I'm hoping than anything else. I think it would be great for a TRULY independent person to be that important to getting things passed. Doesn't hurt that's he's a moderate-liberal, either. ------------------ http://www.swirve.com ... more fun than a barrel full of monkeys and midgets.
The Republicans actually offered him more to stay than the Democrats did for him to leave. The Republicans promised to suspend the rules concerning term limits on a position for him. The Democrats *couldn't* offer him more than that. The guy switched because Bush is much furhter to the Right than anyone expected. If he doesn't stop, there are two more Republicans that *might* switch (Olympia Snowe, and one other, forget his name). Bush was elected by the skin of his teeth on a centrist platform. After the election, he promised bipartisanship and "wound healing." Instead, he's offered extreme conservatism. Is it any surprise that the liberal Republicans find this hard to swallow? ------------------ A few years back on the Senate floor... Phil Gramm: "If Democrats could, they'd tax the air we breathe." Ted Kennedy (jumping up): "By God, why didn't I think of that sooner!" Boston College - NCAA Hockey National Champions 2001
*gasp* You mean Dubya lied?!?!? shut yo mouth! ------------------ Everything you do, effects everything that is.
Aren't the words sleazy and bribery in the DNC charter somewhere? And you Dems always chastise Republicans for not having a sense of humor. HAAHHAHAH ------------------ The ox is slow but the Earth is patient.
Cite a source for Snowe, please. She's rated much more conservatively than Jeffords and I have not heard any rumors regarding a switch, other than wishful thinking. And your appraisal of Bush's campaign promises and track record is laughable. He has been moderate. The definition of moderate YOU seem to be applying is, "Does everything the Democrats want of him without protest. Does nothing the GOP wants."
Here are two potentials, although I assume neither will defect. From CNN: Asked about other potential defectors, Lott said he talked with Sens. Lincoln Chafee of Rhode Island and John McCain of Arizona. He sounded uncertain of McCain's ultimate loyalty to the party, saying, "I can't believe he would be thinking of doing something like that, but having said that, he has cast some votes on some issues" that diverged from most other members of the party. McCain opposed Bush's tax cut and is sponsoring a patients' bill of rights with Kennedy that Democrats will bring to the Senate floor. He has been moderate. The definition of moderate YOU seem to be applying is, "Does everything the Democrats want of him without protest. Does nothing the GOP wants." Really? Moderate and mainstream Republicans aired their grievances during a two-hour caucus Thursday, blaming the GOP leadership for not listening to Jeffords and the rest of them or taking their positions seriously. "Just because we have different views, that doesn't mean that we lack principles," said Sen. Olympia Snowe, R-Maine. Moderate Republicans once again raised the issue of having one of their own at in the leadership, comprised of senators from the conservative wing of the party. "We need to ensure that our voice is heard in the process because obviously we do have different views and we can't always accept fait d' accompli positions when they clearly don't reflect the view of our constituents," Snowe said. Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pennsylvania, said the Republicans have done nothing to get more in touch with what Americans want, especially in key states where Republicans lost seats in November. ------------------ http://www.swirve.com ... more fun than a barrel full of monkeys and midgets.
Where does that clip say that they are blaming Bush for the direction of the party? I think it's universal knowledge that Trent Lott is considered the culprit (and will probably be the fall guy). And don't get me started on CNN's definition of "moderate" or "conservative".
Briankagy: You're certainly cantakerous, today . I certainly expected Bush to have his way more than the Democrats; after all, no matter how he got there, he's President. HOWEVER, his mandate was miniscule... and his rhetoric was moderate. I don't think many would disagree with this assessment. Some very conservative things he's done: 1. Appointed Ashcroft. The guy's a complete right-winger. 2. Refused to approve EPA standards for light-trucks. Mrpaige thought he had - in fact, the EPA plan was available for Bush to sign, and he refused. He's consistently undercut his own EPA appointee. 3. Faith based charity initiative 4. Some of his other appointments - for example, the person in charge of Interior believes the dept should be disbanded. 5. All of his oil policies - he's manufacturing a crisis to allow him to relax restrictions. It's very suspicious. 6. His treatment of China - most other nations think he's nuts 7. The entire budget - his tax cut was rammed through, larger than was fair, proven programs (particularly education) were cut irresponsibly, and Bush succeeded through "blinding" the Senate by vagueness and late release. 8. The lack of input he's allowed moderate Republicans and Democrats. When legislative majorities (and his election) are this slim, Presidents have always consulted extensively with the other party and moderates. Bush has not, and has been outright rude. 9. He's issued a great many executive orders, which exceed other Presidents work at this stage... and the nature of the orders has been broader. This abridges the balance of power. That's off the top of my head. Go to a news website, and comb the articles for more. The guy's not what he promised. Most of my moderate Republicans associates actually agree with me on that. ------------------ A few years back on the Senate floor... Phil Gramm: "If Democrats could, they'd tax the air we breathe." Ted Kennedy (jumping up): "By God, why didn't I think of that sooner!" Boston College - NCAA Hockey National Champions 2001
Funny, nobody had a problem with the guy, but as soon as he leaves the Republican party every republican suddenly rips the guy and says he was paid off and is a trader. Maybe the guy left because he was sick of his own party. That is a possibility. ------------------ "I'm not here to protect my reputation, I'm here to make my reputation! Mama Barkley didn't raise no chumps!" - Charles Barkley
Dubya is a moderate...when compared to Slobodan Milosevic! ------------------ "Blues is a Healer" --John Lee Hooker
Clinton never won a complete majority of the popular vote, but I did not expect him to say as a result "I guess I am not allowed to push any initiatives that I think are a good idea on account of not wanting to offend the 50 percent of the voters who did not want me elected". What is your definition of a moderate? Is it someone who never does anything that offends either side? Or is it someone who produces an administration that can be said, in a big-picture sense, to have worked with both sides of the aisle...? You're not going to like everything Bush says or does. A lot of the people on this BBS are not going to like ANYTHING he says or does, because he's a Republican and wah wah wah it's so unfair that he was born with any sort of privilege whatsoever. But Bush is not pushing a monolithic Gingrich-conservative agenda. Some of what he has done has been conservative; some of what he's done has been Gephardtian. The reason that he's thought of as conservative is simple: Bush's legislative agenda is opposed by a group of bitter, angry, and motivated Democrats (and liberals), and these opponents are being extremely vociferous in their opposition. I don't think you can define Bush's centrism by how the media rate him, or how often his proposals are bashed by lefties-- because even his moderate proposals have been harshly criticized. I mean, look at your list, for crying out loud. You've got the tax cut on there-- one that represents a major compromise from his initial proposal. You've got China on there-- and both sides of the aisle praised Bush's handling of the incident. This is entirely typical of the treatment he's received so far. His actions do not support your belief that he's an arch-conservative, but that's what you damned well think he is, so that's what you're going to call him. You can do a lot better than that. And you've got some nerve to bring up Bush's executive orders after eight years of Clinton and his "Stroke of the pen, law of the land-- pretty cool!" (Paul Begala) cronies.
Bush is as hated by Democrats as Clinton was by Republicans. That about says it all. ------------------ The internet is about the free exchange and sale of other people's ideas. - Futurama
Yeah, but Bush is an idiot . At least Clinton never created crises among foreign policy scholars with bad grammar. Kagy: The Ashcroft nomination is the only thing I need to make my case for Bush being an arch-conservative. Ashcroft is incontestably radically right of center. Bush appointed him. He said he admires judges like Clarence Thomas and Antonin Scalia - people that many Republicans consider too conservative. He treats the environment like it's irrelevant - his moderate father never did that. In fact, that's a good way to see that Bush is very right-wing. Compare him to his father, who *was* a moderate. My definition of a Presidential (only) moderate: a person who has an agenda upon which general consensus can be reached by conservative democrats and liberal republicans. Hypothetically, let's suppose that neither of us are capable of objective appraisal of Bush. What's happenign with political moderates in the legislature? Well, Jeffords left the Republican party and other moderate Republicans are openly calling for a more moderate government. And I resent your argument that because I'm liberal, I'm incapable of objectively appraising Bush. That type of position doesn't do justice to you or me. ------------------ A few years back on the Senate floor... Phil Gramm: "If Democrats could, they'd tax the air we breathe." Ted Kennedy (jumping up): "By God, why didn't I think of that sooner!" Boston College - NCAA Hockey National Champions 2001 [This message has been edited by haven (edited June 01, 2001).]
btw, one addition: Clinton was always elected with a plurality of the popular vote. Note a huge mandate, but a larger one than Bush has. ------------------ A few years back on the Senate floor... Phil Gramm: "If Democrats could, they'd tax the air we breathe." Ted Kennedy (jumping up): "By God, why didn't I think of that sooner!" Boston College - NCAA Hockey National Champions 2001
You Dems are hilarious.... Bush the boogeyman! ------------------ Time is a great teacher-- only problem is it kills all its pupils.
