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The search begins for the next manager

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Yordan The Great, Oct 23, 2023.

  1. Nook

    Nook Member

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    About the same as last year?


    The Astros last year started 3-6 and this year they are 4-9.

    Last year the Astros first 9 games were all against the White Sox and Detroit.

    This year, after 13 games, the Astros have already had to call up two pitchers from the minor leagues to start games.

    I am not overly impressed with Espada as a manager so far - but he isn't responsible for Verlander and Urquidy starting the year on the DL, or for Valdez getting hurt and going on the IL. He isn't responsible for Abreu having a .081 batting average after the first two weeks of the season.

    We will see if he can lead them and pull themselves out of the hole they created.

    The schedule has been hard so far - and the pyth is 6-7 and not 4-9 - so they have either been unlucky or underachieved.

    The Astros currently have a top 5 rotation in baseball on the IL with Verlander/Valdez/McCullers/Garcia/Urquidy.

    If they can ever get 3-4 of those guys back, they should start winning more games.
     
    itzIce, jim1961, ROCKSS and 3 others like this.
  2. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    the SP has been horrendous
     
  3. Nook

    Nook Member

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    The starting pitching has been inconsistent.

    There have already been 2 games started by AAA pitchers and they went a total of 3.1 innings and gave up 12 runs.... it isn't just the hole that put the offense in, but it also meant going to the pen very early. It has a cascading event.

    I know you really support Dusty Baker - I have been supportive of Baker as well and genuinely like him, but a lot of the reason the Astros have the record they have is poor luck, inconsistency from the offense and pitching, and injuries.
     
  4. IBTL

    IBTL Member
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    Got EM!!!!!!
     
  5. IBTL

    IBTL Member
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    You are being FAR TOO KIND to Rvo384 lol.
     
  6. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    Oh look a SP can’t even make it out of the 1st inning before giving up a boatload of runs :rolleyes:
     
  7. Rvo384

    Rvo384 Member

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    Hunter Brown is garbage that is why
     
  8. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    Sounds just like a number of other pitchers that have started on that mound this year
     
  9. Buck Turgidson

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    Espada has been oddly dumb with some decisions, but it's not like he can make the players play
     
  10. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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    In todays society, the guy that gets canned is rarely the guy at blame.
     
    Buck Turgidson likes this.
  11. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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  12. Buck Turgidson

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    No ****, Schwab.
     
  13. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    apparently is not so much common sense
     
  14. Rvo384

    Rvo384 Member

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    A first time manager has to find his leadership ability in the first 20 games. This is exactly why you don’t bring in a manager who has never been one for a team like this. That’s a rebuilding move.
     
  15. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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  16. Rvo384

    Rvo384 Member

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    Still giving hitters an excuse
     
  17. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    nope. you're just trying to find something that isn't anything new, while this extreme problem they have with SP is without a doubt new in the golden run of the stros
     
  18. Rvo384

    Rvo384 Member

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    That team played hard for Dusty. Pitching does not excuse these hitters having little league at bats and coasting in the outfield.
     
  19. Major

    Major Member

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    That's true to a degree, but lineup management is only a tiny portion of what managing is about. It's mostly about motivation, creating the right atmosphere, keeping players loose, trying to get the best out of them, navigating a 7 month season, etc.

    Anytime a team is winning, you can point to stats. Anytime a team is losing, you can point to stats. But managing and leadership in general is about figuring out how to get players playing their best. It only shows up in the stats to the degree that players play well and that can always be attributed to other things.

    For example, Dusty's entire career has been filled with bullpens and defense dramatically improving when he arrived and getting way worse than he left (similar to his overall team records). This is a good article on it: UNSUNG GENIUS: Dissecting Dusty Baker's bullpen brilliance for his sabermetric critics (deadspin.com)

    Not interested in rehashing the Dusty-specific stuff, but this quote is pretty dead-on bigger picture with what happens with fans:

    Researching this article was infuriating. For 30 years, behind every individual bullpen success was some new tweak, pitch, delivery, pitching coach, assistant coach, organization, analytics department — any reason to lean on except the same Black man in each dugout. Each time, white scribes would credit other white men. When a bullpen decision went wrong, well, then that was “on Dusty” with meticulous nitpicking documentation.

    Forget the racism part - but if people don't like the manager, they will credit everything but him for any team success and blame him for any failures. If they do like the manager, then successes are due to him and any failures are despite him. Dusty got no credit despite a 20+ year track record of having the same bullpen and defense effect everywhere he went. We saw that same thing with the Astros the last several years. What's happening to the Astros right now is surprising because they have a ton of talent and are healthier on the offensive side so far than last year. But that they are worse in general than last year despite the same or slightly better roster (Diaz full time, adding Hader, only losing some middle relievers) shouldn't be surprising if Espada turns out not to be a great manager in not understanding all the little non-lineup things - because that stuff really, really matters.
     
    Little Bit likes this.
  20. Major

    Major Member

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    They've only had 3 really awful starts this season though. Framber had an ERA of 2.20 in his 2 starts. Javier has an ERA of 1.10. Blanco has an ERA of 0. France hasn't been great but not awful. Hunter Brown has been a typical #5 pitcher. Their problems have just been the last few days in terms of starting pitching. Before that it was offense and/or the elite bullpen guys.
     

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