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[The New Yorker] Alex Jones, the First Amendment, and the Digital Public Square

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Os Trigonum, Aug 12, 2018.

Page 10 of 14
  1. sirbaihu

    sirbaihu Member

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    OK, tell us all how to easily identify a Jew.

    Also, tell us all how to easily identify a Muslim.
     
    #181 sirbaihu, Jun 7, 2019
  2. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    @DonnyMost

    This is the paradigm in which most right wing individuals "criticize" Muslims. Do you think Cohete Rojo has any sincere desire to solve problems in the Muslim community or is all his criticism stemming from hate and a desire to feel superior to others?
     
    #182 fchowd0311, Jun 7, 2019
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  3. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Ask the shooters who shot up Sikh temples because they thought they were Muslim. I'm an ex-Muslim and yet I've still been verbally harassed for looking Muslim.

    People who hate Muslims and Jews have a perceived idea of how they look.
     
    #183 fchowd0311, Jun 7, 2019
  4. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost be kind. be brave.
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    I agree with your point. There's a lot of concern trolls and bad faith actors on the right when it comes to Islam.

    Owning the libs takes precedent over problem solving in today's conservative movement.
     
    #184 DonnyMost, Jun 7, 2019
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  5. sirbaihu

    sirbaihu Member

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    Hey loser, wake up.
    You said this:

    According to your own posts, you, Nazis, and mass shooters can all recognize Muslims and Jews on sight.

    So, how can the rest of us easily identify a Muslim in a crowd of Americans?
    What does a Jew look like, in a crowd?
     
    #185 sirbaihu, Jun 7, 2019
  6. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    At this point I don't think you are here for a sincere debate. I'm done with you.
     
    #186 fchowd0311, Jun 7, 2019
  7. sirbaihu

    sirbaihu Member

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    You're done all right.
     
    #187 sirbaihu, Jun 7, 2019
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  8. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    Vox is using victim culture to attack smaller creators. Large media groups are on the ropes and will try to destroy opponents. The crowder attack wasn't about thin skin. It was all financial. The left isn't ready to help either because they benefit largely as cali groups like youtube are ready to censor political opponents with 2020 coming up. I expect this to continue to get worse.
     
    #188 dachuda86, Jun 7, 2019
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  9. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    I hope this all made sense to you because I have no idea what you are talking about.

    How did I try a question your gender or shame you?

    Triggered much?
     
    #189 biff17, Jun 7, 2019
  10. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Does Crowder have the freedom to hire web developers, buy his own servers and host his own content on the web?
     
    #190 fchowd0311, Jun 7, 2019
  11. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    He big mad.
     
    #191 biff17, Jun 7, 2019
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  12. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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    the issue is more YouTube's choice to censor/demonitize, not their right to

     
    #192 Commodore, Jun 8, 2019
  13. sirbaihu

    sirbaihu Member

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    You think that's something to shame someone about, do you, "liberal"?
     
    #193 sirbaihu, Jun 8, 2019
  14. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost be kind. be brave.
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    Look at Crowder's views and subs since this story blew up:

    upload_2019-6-8_10-17-54.png

    Good job, Carlos Maza. You basically supercharged Crowder's popularity. Idiot.
     
    #194 DonnyMost, Jun 8, 2019
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  15. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    Haha then activists who pretend to be journalists go for banks and payment processors and hosts... it never ends.

    meanwhile terror org antifa gets a pass.

    big social media outlets are digital public squares now and all voices deserve protection because otherwise speech.. in the modern age.. will be censored by massive corporate entities.


    Free speech must be preserved. They will come for any non mainstream voices and it will be too late when it is yours.

    Regulation is needed when founding principles are under threat. Muh private business doesn't matter in this instance. An internet bill of rights is needed or we will have our own social credit system like china. We already have an unofficial one.
     
    #195 dachuda86, Jun 8, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
  16. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    [​IMG]
    mug club baby!
     
    #196 dachuda86, Jun 8, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
  17. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Where exactly in the bill of rights does it state that a private citizen has the right to have their views expressed on a megaphone on a private entity's platform they do not own?

    Where exactly in the Bill of Rights does it state that a private citizen has the right to monotize their views on a private platform they do not own?

    Is anyone preventing Crowder from hiring his own web developers and buying his own servers and hosting his own content with his own money?

    No, they are not "public squares". They are private entities owned by stock holders, aka private citizens. These private citizens have the right to express their conscience on their own property by not being forced to have a homophobic bigot have his views megaphoned on THEIR platform. Don't go communist on us because you are a fan of someone you feel has been slighted.
     
    #197 fchowd0311, Jun 8, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
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  18. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    what about the arguments in the New Yorker article in the OP that argue to the contrary? especially the part that observes it's ACTUAL communists who do the most censoring of Facebook and others:

    . . . The moderators—censors, really—take down postings and may ban users if they detect a violation of their corporation’s rules. Such censorship is not unconstitutional. The First Amendment protects us against governmental intrusions; it does not (yet) protect speech on privately owned platforms. Still, the Internet and social media increasingly function as a “modern public square,” as Justice Anthony Kennedy put it in a 2017 Supreme Court opinion. This has created new dilemmas concerning free expression.

    The forums of Google and Facebook seem quasi-public in part because of their extraordinary reach. Facebook’s two hundred million monthly users in the U.S. constitute about three-fifths of the American population. Its algorithms and its censors’ judgments, though they inevitably affect commerce and political competition, are based upon rules that aren’t all published. When moderators at Facebook, Google, and Twitter review the appropriateness of posted content, they generally follow First Amendment-inspired principles, according to Kate Klonick, a legal scholar who analyzed the practices of the three companies in the Harvard Law Review last year. Some of the platforms’ standards are unsurprising, such as their bans on p*rnography and terrorist incitement. Other rules require moderators to block “hate speech,” an ambiguous term that, despite Facebook’s efforts at delineation, can be politicized. Still other censorship reflects sensitivities that arise from operating in dozens of countries, including some run by dictators.
    ​
    Seems kind of hit-or-miss to me . . . don't you run the risk of putting an awful lot of trust in entities and individuals who may not warrant that trust?
     
    #198 Os Trigonum, Jun 8, 2019
  19. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    I have never been a Muslim and I get harassed if I don't shave for a few days. People just assume so much.

    Muslims are violent people! Muslims saved my dad and his family's life during partition. People act like every single Muslim is an evil fundamentalist
     
    #199 Sweet Lou 4 2, Jun 8, 2019
  20. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    here's a link to an article describing Justice Kennedy's opinion in the 2017 case:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-use-by-sex-offenders/?utm_term=.e84c8cd31bde

    an excerpt about the broader implications of the case:

    Farther afield? Well, the court used some ringing words about the Internet and its significance as a First Amendment platform:
    To the extent this reflects the court’s willingness to recognize strong First Amendment protection for the right to access the Internet, it could call other regulations involving Internet access restrictions into question. For example, my colleagues Annemarie Bridy and Harold Feld have each suggested that provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act requiring Internet service providers to terminate Internet access for “repeat [copyright] infringers” could face renewed scrutiny after Packingham.

    On the other hand, one man’s ringing words are another’s — specifically, Alito’s — “loose rhetoric” and “undisciplined dicta.” The concurring justices (Alito, Roberts, Thomas) agreed with the majority that the NC statute “sweeps far too broadly to satisfy the demands of the Free Speech Clause,” and they had no particular problem with the way the majority characterized and undertook the First Amendment analysis in the case. Rather unusually, I think, their disagreement focused entirely on nuance, characterization and rhetoric:
    Well, that may be true — but if the Internet has become the “quintessential forum for the exercise of First Amendment rights,” like parks or public sidewalks or public libraries, why shouldn’t states have “little ability to restrict the sites that may be visited” by anyone? Isn’t that the point of the First Amendment?

    And those (like me) who have followed the cyberlaw debates over the years will be interested to see that there’s a very interesting echo here of one of the foundational issues in cyberlaw, “Exceptionalism” vs. “Unexceptionalism,” The majority takes the Unexceptionalist position: the Internet is just like a park — a public place where people can go to express themselves; it’s just like real space, and the same principles should apply to it.

    The concurring justices are the Exceptionalists:
     
    #200 Os Trigonum, Jun 8, 2019
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