The NBA's pursuing a vote on NBA Draft Lottery reform before the start of season

did you listen to his discussion with Beck on that podcast. He's not being provocative; Beck is if anyone.

All Morey is saying is that we shouldn't use other arguments about Free Agency problems and Destination cities vs non to vote against this Lottery reform. He agrees there are other issues, but those are to be dealt with in other ways. He is not saying this will solve everything.

I guess ppl view a proposal like this as lacking because it doesn't solve everything, so vote it down until there is a complete solution???? This isn't like voting down the congressional budget, forcing another one. Or voting against a new CBA, until there is a better one. He's making the case that this is just one line-item issue.

He doesn't understand why someone would use other issues to say this minor Lottery reform is worth voting down. It's like ppl are using this lottery reform as a platform about other issues.

 

In this system, more teams have a chance at a top pick. If you are trying to win and playing your best players every night, and STILL happen to have the worst record, you get the top chance at the #1 pick.

 

And yet, he himself used it against the tanking team mentality.


And more to the point, which is shameless on Moreys part, is this: the league has addressed the issue of "hurting free agents," with other guidelines like minimum payroll, bri, etc. Not sure why we need lottery reform to address it as well.

 

So, I take it you didn't listen to the podcast, because he explains that tweet. He simply says one of the drawbacks of tanking is teams spend time thinking of ways to tank the best they can. One way is to pass on free agents who can help their wins in the shortterm.

Again, he is NOT saying that lottery reform will fix free agency. He was merely pointing out one of the several things teams do in order to tank. And I'm sure he knows that as fact. I appreciate him sharing those facts.

I really suggest you listen to the podcast.

"And more to the point" -- Are you voting against this minor Lottery reform, because it doesn't fix everything?

 

bri has solved free agency for the average nba player. The league has to spend a certain amount of money on the players, or the players get a refund of the difference.

so no, I don't think that that is a valid point. It does not hurt the players if a team that is cap conscious doesn't sign tony Allen, because that's all they can get.
Until you show me one team out there that wouldn't give Anthony Davis the max, morey is barking up the wrong tree.

 

Again, in the podcast Morey lists about 4-5 things that teams do which is counterproductive to winning ... in sum, it is called Tanking. I don't know what you mean by "barking up the wrong tree" in reference to teams trading away useful vets, not using their MLE, hiring inexperienced coaches, etc....as tools of tanking. Those are just facts of the Henke Method in action, upon which Morey was elaborating for us. I appreciate a knowledgeable GM like Morey painting a full picture of how tanking strategies work.

It's OK to say this minor lottery reform should be voted down until we get a more comprehensive plan to fix everything, from tanking, to Destination city advantages, to super teams. It's OK to take that position. It's OK, because votes like this can mean we get less change later ... like, "Well, we just made such and such change, let's wait to see how this plays out and table any other discussions about further changes."

Morey's only point is that he's fine voting for this minor change to lottery as a separate line-item. And he agrees with you that there are still other issues to tackle.

 

Before the new money came into the nba, teams would often use the salary dump strategy to get there books in order. These teams, in acquiring these players, spent money.
Phoenix Suns had multiple opportunities to trade Tyson Chandler and they held on to him.
When utah traded Deron Williams it was due to Deron forcing a trade in a free agent contract year rather than utah wanting to get into the lottery.
Orlando held out forever to keep Dwight Howard.
If you want to fix something that would curb tanking make it impossible for the Derons and dcousins of the world to threaten there teams with leaving the team in free agency.

 

So, you are in favor of voting down this minor Lottery Reform, to make them do a more comprehensive plan to fix everything.

 

Here is what I am in favor of. The NBA should do away with free agency. If a team drafts a player they should have the right to keep that player for the duration of their career.
That would stop the majority of tanking. Also, if a player decides to not player for the team that drafts him, the player should not be allowed to enter the draft until after 3 years have past.
The NFL is largely a draft heavy league, and they are one of the best in terms of parity
Having a player for the duration of their career would build loyalty among fans. It would promote fairness and better playoff basketball. It would make everything better. To me, the rockets are nothing more than a team for hire. And maybe the name on the front of the jersey means something, I can't tell myself.

 

I'm not asking you about other proposals. You've outlined that in your own threads several times. I'm asking you if you want to vote down the proposed lottery reform.

Can you not answer that? By just bringing up other proposals, you are somewhat partaking in gridlock, where we just argue over which proposal is best and not bring anything to vote.

 

of course I want it voted down

 

OK, some ppl like Howard Beck and Morey also want other more comprehensive solutions like you, but said they would vote for this minor reform as a separate issue.

It wasn't clear you were taking a more hard-line, all-or-nothing approach to change. Which is fine.

You tie everything together....such that you want everything voted down until the perfect solution is up for vote. That's fine. Congress creates gridlock like that all time. It's a perfectly valid way to anchor in and demand drastic change vs piecemeal, line item reforms like this minor adjustment to Lottery odds.

You're a revolutionary.

 

If the lottery reform was a small step in the right direction, I could get behind it. But all this seems to do is to help middling teams get a better draft spot, while killing the incentive to go for the 8th spot in the playoffs.

 

Morey and Beck addressed that last point about Teams not being incentivized to go for 8th spot. I agree with them. What's your take on what they say?

Note, the lottery works the same way. You can still only jump into the first 1-3 spots; otherwise you stay the same

 

what did they say

 

First they acknowledge the 12-14th spots currently have chances to jump to 1-3, nothing has changed but a tweak to their long shot odds. So, that's always been an issue.

Secondly, even if teams do view the new odds being enough of a change to make barely missing the playoffs to be worth it now to do late season tanking versus not being worth it in years past, at least there is a significant business penalty (pain point) to tanking from 8th seed to 14th pick. When tanking for the best lottery picks, there is zero financial penalty between being 5th worst record or 2nd worst or worst. There is no disincentive at the lowest win levels....which is where the reform does its most.

 

I view it as nothing but semantics. It is a WAY of framing the issue to make it seem beneficial to the system.
However, I view it this way. If the whole reason for making this change is to make it less attractive to tanking (I am making a semantical argument here), and the spearheaders of this change are trying to discipline those teams for not trying to be competitive, then the incentives and the odds for teams at the lower end of the draft are going to be such that Not making the playoffs would be the better option. That's the reality.

It's all semantics. it's how you view it.

 

I disagree. The new odds aren't a big enough change to make you tank for the 14th pick now, when you previously would have gone for the playoffs.

The penalty of barely missing the playoffs run deep into many facets of your team business. That is a reality. And even if slight odds changes at the 14th seed does change some teams mind, the market will be glad to fill that playoff spot

At least they are giving up something other teams want. And that's a reality, too, not semantics.


It won't lead to more tanking, whereby everyone is fighting to avoid that 8th seed.. The more who make the dive for the 14th spot will gladly be replaced by the teams who want to surpass them for that playoff seed. It will remain in equilibrium

 

I'm in agreement with you on all of that. I do think the predicament OKC found itself in was at least partly because they were poorly run. San Antonio drafted three superstars (or at least two superstars and two very strong all stars) and managed to keep it together all this time. San Antonio is just such an amazing franchise. It pisses me off because they've given us zero choice but to at least respect them.