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The myth of 'James Harden shoots too many free throws'

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by DrNuegebauer, Apr 7, 2015.

  1. DrNuegebauer

    DrNuegebauer Member

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    I am constantly annoyed at the way some commentators rage on about Harden shooting 'too many' free throws. In my opinion, he doesn't shoot anywhere near enough, but save that for another thread.
    I am particularly annoyed by the whole 'Harden will get the scoring title because he gets to the line so often'. Clearly it is an overexaggerated claim!

    THIS SEASON
    Harden FT attempts per game: 10.2
    Westbrook FT attempts per game: 9.8

    Is it a shock that the 2 leading scorers in the league attempt so many free throws? Let's cast a cursory glance over the previous scoring champs:

    Durant FT attempts per game as scoring leader last season: 9.9 (10.2 previously as scoring leader)
    Lebron FT attempts as scoring leader: 10.3
    Dwayne Wade FT attempts as scoring leader: 9.8
    Kobe Bryant FT attempts as scoring leader: 10.2 and 10.0

    In the last 10 years, only Carmello has lead the league in scoring while taking less than 9 FT attempts per game...

    So does Harden shoot too many?
    His game is mostly 3s or layups. Players who drive the lane historically shoot more free throws. (Did anybody complain back when Jordan was taking 11 attempts per contest?). Harden is very strong, very good at getting into the lane, and the leading scorer - hence teams want to stop him, and so try to play him physical without giving the foul (beat him up and slow him down).
    He shoots a very normal number of FTs for a scoring leader. Where is the media getting their narrative from?
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. tim562

    tim562 Contributing Member

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    Nice breakdown. The man should not, in any way shape or form, be penalized for being fouled. Playoffs or reg season
     
  3. WinkFan

    WinkFan Contributing Member

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    The criticism of Harden's FTs is a justification for people who dislike his style.
     
  4. sugrlndkid

    sugrlndkid Member

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    It is not that he shoots too many FT's...its that "HE FLOPS his way to the line."
    This is the myth that is perpetuated by ill-informed west coast media/puppets, out of touch sports "analysts", and idiotic fans that regurgitate the incessant garbage...

    Reasons for myths are often just based on stat lines..(ie. 50 point game, 21 FTs made). James cant help it if he is getting fouled. There is "no glitch" in the system...and refs have to call fouls that rip across the hand. He has mastered bringing the ball so low in the paint and explodes up instantly when he sees feeble attempts at a steal. Harden takes the pain and punishment and relishes in it. Almost as if he enjoys it...

    I often wonder if players did not foul James, would he actually be a more proficient scorer (ie. higher scoring avg, higher PER)??? I have to commend James Harden a lot. To consistently go into the lane and get hacked throughout a game is so difficult. When people consistently take free swings down at his forearms, and rips him down to the court...I often fear the worst. But he does it...consistently without any qualms. He is a relentless machine who also happens to be a great shooter.
     
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  5. shastarocket

    shastarocket Contributing Member

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    Came here to post this.

    While Harden has swept aside the defensive ineptitude narrative, this is the new ridiculously overblown criticism.
     
  6. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

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    Great post. This is like nails on a chalkboard for me. It's so easy to come to this conclusion if you are only a surface-level thinker.

    "In the last 10 years, only Carmello has lead the league in scoring while taking less than 9 FT attempts per game..."

    ^^ This is called being a jump shooter only.
     
  7. bongman

    bongman Member

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    It's probably more of... because he doesn't play on their team. I am sure that if Kobe played here and won us rings, a lot more fans won't probably mind his attitude.
     
  8. TracywtFacy

    TracywtFacy Member

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    Were any of those others averaging around ~10ft per game ever criticized for it? I seem to remember some against Wade, but never to the extent Harden is getting...
     
  9. basketballholic

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    Harden's FTr this season is .559.

    In 2005, 2006, 2007 Dwayne Wade's FTr's were .578, .568, and .556 respectively.



    This season, Bismach Biyombo (.933), Tyler Hansbrough (.921), DeAndre Jordan (.897), Rudy Gobert (.674), Mason Plumlee (.649), Dwight Howard (.621), and Tyson Chandler (.569) all have been much more creative and proficient than Harden at getting to the free throw line when they touch the basketball.

    So, if we aren't going to call fouls on Harden when the defender's arms and hands are in direct contact with his arms and hands when he is attempting to shoot the basketball then for sure stop calling all these fouls against these big men.


    A foul is a foul is a foul is a foul. The best players in the NBA have always been skilled at drawing fouls and using that skill to win games, playoff series, and championships. The only difference is Harden and all the superstars of the past is they did not use it throughout the course of a game and a season. They limited their foul drawing skill to game-winning situations, an occasional bail out end-of-the-shotclock possession, and the playoffs/Finals. Harden has perfected the skill and uses it throughout the game and throughout the whole season. There's nothing wrong with that. A foul is a foul is a foul is a foul is a foul. If the league doesn't like it, change the rules.
     
    #9 basketballholic, Apr 7, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2015
  10. Teen Wolf

    Teen Wolf Member

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    Kobe's attitude /= harden taking it to the hoop:confused:
     
  11. ceonwuka

    ceonwuka Member

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    Yea this criticism is so dumb. Nobody watches games anymore, they just read box scores, watch ESPN highlights, and repeat what they heard other talking heads say.

    Harden gets to the line a lot because he gets fouled a lot. Just like Westbrook now and KD, LeBron, Kobe, Wade in seasons past.

    Such a dumb argument...
     
  12. ipaman

    ipaman Contributing Member

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    The narrative was already constructed out of Houston, Harden, and D12 hate. Only way to create your own narrative is to win. And even that doesn't guarantee anything. The media is evil personified, the geniuses are the one's who can manipulate it.
     
  13. rocketsballin

    rocketsballin Member

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    what about the reality of 'westbrook is .5fta behind harden'?
    cousins is one attempt behind. dont hear a lot of that from the idiots
     
  14. coachbadlee

    coachbadlee Member

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    I don't think anyone here cares about him shooting too many FT's.
     
  15. baubo

    baubo Member

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    To be perfectly objective, when bodies collide in the paint, reputation plays a large part in whistles get blown or not. And Harden to me seems to get more benefit-of-the-doubt calls in such situations. Westbrook, Cousins, LeBron these guys have lesser FT rate than Harden as they drive more but get less FTs. Let’s not kid ourselves. Harden is the most “efficient” at getting to the line.

    If there’s one argument I can make for Harden’s FTs being inflated, it’s the fact that (A) he shoots all our technical and (B) he shoots most of our end-of-game foulfest FTs. I wish there’s a stat for FTs on shooting fouls as opposed to personal fouls. If that distinction is made, I bet Harden would be closer than other guys.
     
  16. DrNuegebauer

    DrNuegebauer Member

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    Cousins shoots 9.2 per game.

    You are a prime example of the media hype train. Boogie is always on the line.
    Lebron was 10 per game when he won the scoring title.
    As I have already illustrated, Westbrook is 10 per game this season....

    Harden's FTs ARE NOT INFLATED. That is the very point of this thread. He shoots exactly what one would expect for the guy who wins the scoring title.
     
  17. acefan18

    acefan18 Member

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    I am so exhausted from arguing with imbeciles who continually say Harden isn't fun to watch because he flops every time he drives to the basket. People with this opinion DO NOT watch Rockets games. They listen to biased media reporters/writers who don't watch Rockets games themselves. Anyone who watches a Rockets game and still says Harden's fouls are flops can't be reasoned with. The closest I can get to common ground with them is that Harden will at times accentuate contact to draw attention to it, but I beg them to name one NBA player who doesn't do this regularly. It is frustrating. Oh well, ***** the haters....LETS GO ROCKETS!!!!!!!!
     
  18. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Contributing Member

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    They're fouls according to the rule book
     
  19. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    It isn't like Harden is flopping all the time. People actually foul him. He suckers them into it. But that shouldn't be seen as a negative for James.

    People keep complaining about it, but a load of bull. I don't understand the complaint.
     
  20. baubo

    baubo Member

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    Harden has 431 attempts at the rim and 777 FTAs.
    Cousins has 448 attempts at the rim and 541 FTAs.

    Just because I don’t share the same opinion as you doesn’t mean it’s because I get my info from ESPN. In fact, I thought about what you did a few weeks ago and decided to see if the theory hold. But instead, I found that a lot of the other top FT players also decidedly shot much more than Harden at the rim. LeBron, Westbrook, Cousins, all get their shots in the paint at a higher volume than Harden, yet shoot less FTs.
     

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