1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

The economy

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Aug 18, 2019.

  1. RayRay10

    RayRay10 Houstonian

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2015
    Messages:
    4,629
    Likes Received:
    11,030
    The social safety net is what’s needed to help those communities out. Instead of just providing a website and slogan, provide monetary incentive for those same people. Give them grants to move and go back to school/training in a different location. Give them priority for certain government jobs if they complete school/training. Provide incentives for companies to move into those areas (not manufacturing).

    These are only a few suggestions, but the government will need to step in with more than slogans and websites.
     
    Invisible Fan and Blatz like this.
  2. TheFreak

    TheFreak Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 1999
    Messages:
    18,253
    Likes Received:
    3,210
    Trump’s winning message to workers during this pandemic: Take a step that is new everybody!

    [​IMG]
     
    tinman and RayRay10 like this.
  3. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2005
    Messages:
    8,874
    Likes Received:
    3,166
    I think we can all agree that coal has no future. My argument isn't that we should preserve coal. My argument is that simply funding some retraining programs won't do anything to fix the fundamental problem at hand.

    But neither party has presented an actual solution to prevent Appalachia from descending into catastrophic poverty. The region was already poor but it has now lost its only good source of decent employment and we do a disservice to ourselves and to the people there when we just casually talk about retraining and investment. Frankly, that isn't enough. Those communities lack basic infrastructure and are facing severe population declines. They'll hit third world level poverty there if this continues. We're not even close to the bottom for Appalachia. It's going to get so much worse over the next few decades.

    And I just think Democrats need to speak with some level of empathy as they're always quick to emphasize the need to phase out coal without speaking with any empathy towards those that are not just losing jobs but also losing their communities. A place like McDowell County in West Virginia is now 1/5 of its peak population. Next door in Mingo County the population is now half of its peak. There is simply no opportunity to work in these communities outside of some minimum wage jobs and maybe some low paying call center jobs. And on top off that you have opioid addiction, crumbling schools and health care access and food deserts.

    This requires so much more than some retraining. Coal jobs were a minority in these areas even at their peak. What coal gave was enough disposable income to create businesses and corporate funded infrastructure that could sustain a community.

    Basically I just hope we all start speaking with more empathy and focus on making things better in Appalachia and the Rust Belt. Coal is gone for good, I think people there will privately admit it. But who is going to step up and actually put to paper a comprehensive revitalization program for the region. And as long as both parties continue to provide inadequate solutions (Democrats) or just lie about the situation (Republicans), the people there will just give up on mainstream politics and continue to support radical populists.
     
    R0ckets03, RayRay10 and arkoe like this.
  4. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    54,168
    Likes Received:
    42,172
    Empathy or maybe better sympathy, yes politicians should do that for the people for the Appalachia and I agree neither party has really done much for Appalachia since LBJ. At the same time hard truths need to be spoke and no amount of empathy and sympathy can deny that the days of earning a good living going down in a deep hole digging up rocks to be burned are gone. Given all of the health problems and environmental damage those days shouldn't return. While those jobs might've been a minority they were a basis of the much of the Appalachian economic system.

    The Appalachian economy needs a major transformation. Tourism and wind power are possibilities so are decentralized jobs like call centers. All of those take a lot of investment and retraining. At the same time they won't provide the same economic benefits that coal mining did. That's another hard truth.

    We can feel bad for those people but trying to keep and maintain Appalachia like it was when the mines were were in full swing I'm not sure is worth it. Things will have to change and Appalachia will have to continue to lose people like many other rural areas of the country. The solutions presented by the Right to give a lot of rhetoric about protecting a culture and then allowing corporations to loot them isn't an answer nor are ideas by the Left to just try to subsidize them and shield them from competition are good either. What we should be doing is looking to ease the transition.
     
    dmoneybangbang and RayRay10 like this.
  5. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    54,490
    Likes Received:
    54,412
  6. RayRay10

    RayRay10 Houstonian

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2015
    Messages:
    4,629
    Likes Received:
    11,030
    Clinton's Secretary of Labor from 93-97 who also served in the Carter and Ford administrations. Good follow.





     
    Andre0087, deb4rockets and No Worries like this.
  7. RayRay10

    RayRay10 Houstonian

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2015
    Messages:
    4,629
    Likes Received:
    11,030
  8. RayRay10

    RayRay10 Houstonian

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2015
    Messages:
    4,629
    Likes Received:
    11,030
    https://www.texastribune.org/2020/07/20/texas-deficit-comptroller/

    Texas faces a looming $4.6 billion deficit, comptroller projects
    The coronavirus pandemic and low oil prices are driving down projected general revenue in the state's current budget by more than $11 billion.

    More at the link
     
    LabMouse and deb4rockets like this.
  9. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    20,999
    Likes Received:
    12,873
    I think democrats/liberals do show and speak with empathy but its not unlimited. Partially coming from poor east texas machinists and poor south Louisiana rice farmers, there's a certain entitlement mindset. I think all people can have it regardless of background, but this is an all encompassing entitlement sandwiched between political ideology and US mythos of individualism.

    How do you change that type entitlement?
     
    RayRay10 likes this.
  10. ElPigto

    ElPigto Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2006
    Messages:
    14,782
    Likes Received:
    23,350
    How are you all feeling about the talks regarding the new stimulus package? My desires were the following:
    • Issue checks to Americans that actually need them.
    • Extend UE benefits, although it was my belief that we needed to reduce the weekly bonus the feds were providing to more closely reflect the actual amounts people are making.
      • I do wrestle with this idea, because I don't think we properly account for individuals that work 2 to 3 jobs, therefore, if they lose all of their jobs, they likely would not be compensated properly.
      • On the flip side, I don't think people should make more than what they were making previously via unemployment. I would support a temporary universal income bonus while the government continues to wrestle action on COVID.
    • I would support student debt cancellation of up to 1 years worth of payments (rather than just doing a moratorium). I would assume rates based on paying the loan on a 10-year basis (that way those that have their loan payment at 25-years don't get screwed).
    • I do believe we need to expand medicaid/medicare access.
      • Lets face it, ACA for the good it did (preexisting conditions, eliminating lifetime limits), it is still worthless to individuals that can't afford to pay deductibles.
        • It makes no sense to expect for someone who lost their job to be able to afford healthcare for themselves and the rest of their family (even if they are provided government subsidies to pay the premiums).
        • COBRA sucks since you are no longer subsidized by your employer and I highly doubt a worker will actually be able to cover their premiums. I bet even for those that may have a 6-month savings, they likely didn't account for the actual cost of their healthcare coverage.
    • Provides funds to state and local officials.
    • Extend further loans to small businesses.
    • Limit the amount of money to be given to large corporations, ultimately, they are trying to get us by the balls by saying they are going to lay-off thousands of workers. I rather government takes care of them for now than just distribute more checks to those corporations.
    • I would love for hazard pay to be extended to all lower level employees working for employers such as Walmart/Amazon/Target.
      • I understand some companies have already raised their minimum wage salaries, but I think these workers deserve more compensation since they are being asked to risk their health for the benefit of the nation (after all we still need grocers, janitors, etc).
    I don't support:
    • We Payroll Tax Holiday (Trump favorite)
      • I don't understand how this helps the country if an unusually large percentage will be unemployed. Why should we expect large corporations to higher more workers because they see a decrease in their payroll tax contributions? Considering the tax would be temporary, I'm sure this would likely be given back to shareholders and CEOs.
      • It may help us that are currently employed, but we are likely to need the money and will likely just save it. For lower wage workers, that payroll tax deduction would be such a minuscule percentage that it's practically worthless.
      • Why the hell are we going to take away money from social security and medicare to fund some worthless trickle economics bullshit idea?
    • Completely getting rid of extension of UE benefits.
      • I'd only consider this if some sort of universal basic income is provided, otherwise, you'll really see the economy plunge down the shithole when individuals don't have money to spend.
    I think this next stimulus package is really really important that we give money to the individuals that are actually going to spend it. I'm tired of giving it to large companies just to see them turn around and make their shareholders and board members richer. What's the point in that? Trickle down economics is a stupid concept that is proven to not work time and time again and I rather just give money to individuals that are actually going to spend it while being able to pay their bills as well.
     
  11. RayRay10

    RayRay10 Houstonian

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2015
    Messages:
    4,629
    Likes Received:
    11,030
    I would love for the HEROES Act to get passed, but the Republicans can't let something like that pass.

    Ultimately, I agree with what you've said. If we can get a bill like that, I'll be satisfied. However, I have a feeling corporations are going to get theirs whether we like it or not.
     
    ElPigto and Andre0087 like this.
  12. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    58,926
    Likes Received:
    36,490
    Economy looking good in the early reopen states
     
    RayRay10 likes this.
  13. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    54,490
    Likes Received:
    54,412
    Gee, the republican senate can't even come up with someone within their own caucus... meanwhile Americans continue to struggle. Hopefully this will also be fixed in November...

     
    RayRay10 likes this.
  14. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    54,490
    Likes Received:
    54,412
    So... it looks like they won't be able to come up with a real solution, so they throw a little scotch take and spit on it and hope the next congress can fix it...

     
    RayRay10 likes this.
  15. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    54,490
    Likes Received:
    54,412
    Expect a trump tweetrum soon as he didn't get his payroll tax cut...

     
    RayRay10 likes this.
  16. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    54,490
    Likes Received:
    54,412
  17. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    54,490
    Likes Received:
    54,412
  18. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    58,926
    Likes Received:
    36,490
    This is Great Depression 2.0. This was obvious back in March. What was also obvious was that there was no reopening without the virus under control and that a wait & see approach was disastrous on both fronts - but we did it anyway. Now we are stuck with Graveyard Mitch who can't pass legislation and Montreal Cognitive man trying to cobble something together in the next 2 days and theyare failing - as was all entirely foreseeable. Meanwhile the House passed a bill months ago.

    This is a cataclysm. Eviction moratorium and unemployment subsidy needs to continue. The economy is contracting and the virus rages out of control. There is no recovery without virus control. There is no virus control withoit federal leadership.

    People don't realize how close to a chasm we are. And they're still whining about unemployment benefits being too good.

    Its not a benefit, it's ****ing life support. That we paid for. With our resources.
     
  19. ElPigto

    ElPigto Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2006
    Messages:
    14,782
    Likes Received:
    23,350
    Only uneducated Trump fools believed this **** would be good for our economy.
     
    RayRay10 likes this.
  20. RayRay10

    RayRay10 Houstonian

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2015
    Messages:
    4,629
    Likes Received:
    11,030
    oof....a quarter of their workforce getting laid off.

     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now