The Astros' Hall of Fame & Retired Numbers are drunk

I wasn't around for the 80s. I know he seems to be a very popular player among some Astros fans but all I've got are numbers, numbers that didn't even exist when he was actually playing.

Bill Doran was a low key great player, his WAR numbers in a modern context (granted defensive numbers for the era are sketchy at best) are extremely good. 30 WAR (8th among eligible Astros hitters) over roughly 8 seasons and local popularity justify a team HOF induction just fine, in fact guys like him are the reason it should exist. A lesser honor short of the premier honor of jersey retirement.

Bill Brown is a no brainer given his tenure. He was the voice of Astros baseball for 30 seasons.

As for the retired jersey's, I agree 100% except for Nolan who has legend status far beyond his actual on field results. I could probably name 20-30 guys who I would consider worthy of a team hall of fame before even getting to this era.

 

I'd still retire Berkman & Oswalt. Probably Dierker as well just for his combined service to the team. I think a 10 year minimum is good.

The HOF is a little ridiculous, but heck, its largely about nostalgia. I would certainly dump Aspromonte, Umbricht & Hofheinz. The rest, no major problem, though it would have been better if they had limited it to a smaller initial 2 classes so that they could have honored 2 guys each year for a decade.

 

I agree that the organization went way too far in over compensating for not having a HOF for 55+ years.

There should not be more than 1 player for every 4-5 years of team existence. That would be 12-16 as of 2023.

As for numbers retired, it should be an honor reserved for the top 10-20% of team HOFers but also for players who should be remembered ( Jim Umbricht*) and have special place in history of team but not eligible for HOF. If there are 12-16 HOF, there should be 3-5 numbers retired.

For HOF, there should be time/game requirements. 7 years and 700g =34 position players. 7 years and 100g =27 pitchers.

12-16 of 61 eligible is top is 20-26% of all eligible players.

That should be absolute minimum and still likely too lenient.

I disagree that anything to do with other teams should affect the Astros HOF or number retired.

Just because a player was great or did something noteworthy with another organization should not impact how they are thought of or remembered for the Astros.

As for non-players they should be even more rare than players. I would say managers/coaches should be 2-3 max and broadcasters or other not on the field personnel should be also 2-3 max.

* not saying Jim Umbricht should or should not have his number retired. Simply giving an example of who might be who is eligible for my point.

 

What's the earliest we can retire #15 and send him to The Astros hall of fame?

 

I don't disagree with Bregman probably not getting his # retired, based on trajectory. But he is still under 30 and could rebound back to closer to his career #s. He was easily the best player on that 2019 team that may have been the best Astros squad of all time. And he's in the small group that won two rings with the team. He's got a higher career OPS than Tucker. I can see him making a good case if he sticks around through another contract.

 

This is just a guess, but I would think any player who is on 3 teams that win the World Series for a single franchise will have his number retired by that team. If the Astros win another ring in the next 2 seasons then I think Bregman and Verlander both probably have their numbers retired by the Astros. (Altuve’s number being retired is a given at this point.)

 

What about Lance in that scenario? Especially if he was to pitch well in that hypothetical 3rd championship run.

 

I watched my first favorite Astro enshrined into the Astros HOF this weekend and it was awesome so I’m so glad you’re losing this argument in reality, @Hey Now!

 

I think an Astros HOF that doesn’t include Hofheinz would be silly, honestly…but that’s me

 

If the HOF doesn't include Ensberg and Hidalgo then it's not real

Best 1-hit wonders ever

 

I think you’re underrating Doran, but regardless I don’t ultimately care. I get the concern over retired numbers…but the HOF is just a “for the fans” thing. Doran was an insanely popular and loved player on that team…which makes him more than just another guy.

I wore my Doran jersey Saturday night and a guy came up to me to tell me that Doran was his favorite player ever, and he named his first son Doran after him. That’s wild.

Ultimately, it’s a tiny 3 foot wide box on the Crawford box walkway. Connects me deeper to my team…makes me think about my grandparents…and then got to share that moment with Doran there on the field again with my kids. They were both excited to go see that with me. To me that’s what a team HOF is for. Moments like that. I prefer that to formulas and VORP. It’s why I watch (and pay too much for all of it!)

 

In the Hall of MadMax Frustration there’s a tribute to Ensberg switching batting stances repeatedly in the same at bat during the 2005 World Series.

 

This.

 

Nolan Ryan deserves to have his number retired with the Astros.

He is one of the most iconic players in big league history, he also pitched on the Astros longer than any other team, including the Angels. He pitched nearly 2,000 innings with the Astros, won an ERA title, pitched in the post season in 1980, 1981 and 1986. His FIP was lower on the Astros than any other team, checking in at 2.87. In the Astrodome, if he had played on better defensive teams, be could have had an era in the 2.60-2.70 span over 9 years (his FIP is 2.87).

He was also the most popular player on the Astros during that decade span. He finished in the top 5 for Cy Young twice with the Astros and also had another pair of top 10 finishes.

Mike Scott had more than just a great 1986....he was very good for 5 straight years before his arm gave out...... he won 18, 18, 16, 14, 20 with the Astros and in his last healthy season, he finished second in the Cy Young balloting. Overall in that 5 year stretch he finished in the top 7 of Cy Young voting 3 times and top 15 in the MVP voting twice.... in that 5 year span he averaged 5 WAR and led all of baseball in WAR one season.

Maybe the prime of Mike Scott wasn't long enough - he was hurt by age 34 and never healthy again - but he was more than a fluke one year.

 

I don't think the Astros would still be in Houston without Hofheinz.

 

I have this conversation with friends and my kids a lot….Mike Scott by playoff time in 1986 is only matched by Pedro’s ridiculous season in Boston (in the steroid era). He was terrifying to opponents, and the 86 Mets still talk about that.