Thank you, Chris Simms

in way, yeah, CU did plan for chris being a dumbass! applewhite's a smarter QB than simms -- i think even phil would owe up to that. for whatever reason, it doesn't seem to take as much to confuse him as it might applewhite. so you can drop into simple zone coverage, read him and make plays. a CU defender said as much -- he said they knew he wouldn't see the LB underneath, etc.

obviously, you're going to have to do more to disguise your defense with applewhite; you're going to have to blitz him, rush his throws, hustle him from the pocket, etc. i don't think you defense applewhite the same way you do simms. plus, you haven't pratcied his tendencies, his rythym, his release, etc. don't dismiss it as a factor -- it's why a lot of back-ups can come in and seemingly star (ie todd bouman yesterday in pittsburgh)

<B>he point isn't how many he threw, but how many he completed. Colorado also KNEW he was going to throw nearly every down (especially with Benson hurt) and he still was able to throw all over the field.</B>

hey, no question, major still had to make the plays, and did. i just don't think you can take that performance and use it as a basis for much of anything.

and for the record, when he wasn't throwing to CU defenders, simms was throwing it all over the field, too. applewhite averaged 16 yards a catch; simms nearly 15. had simms thrown all 42 ut passes, he was on pace to complete 22 for 318 yards. granted, he would've thrown 7 picks...

i know the INT's were killers and i'm not trying to discount them, but had he been able to avoid them, or had they not led to points... he was whipping the ball around the field, too. obviously, CU's pass defense is somewhat questionable.

<B>That's why I don't like the time of possession stat at all. If I throw 3 incomplete passes, that eats 20 seconds of clock. If I run 3 times for 0 yards, that eats two minutes. However, the defense spent the same amount of energy in each case.</b>

i disagree and so would the vast majority of people who follow football. running plays wear down a defense -- the offense is geared to move forward, whereas in pass protection, they move away from contact -- it's a different beast, so it is a telling statistic and can change the complextion of a game.

<B>I don't believe in playing for near year, EVER, especially not in bowl games. Bowl games are rewards for teams. Reward the players that deserve it.</B>

applewhite "deserves" it for one half of football?! so simms has played no role in texas' 10 wins this year? come on...

<B>I'm not bitter about him achieving it -- that would be great. I wanted him to succeed here too, but I don't see anything that tells me he will. Lots of kids are 6'5" and have a strong arm and won't be drafted ahead of him. He's going to make millions of dollars because of his name and that's what annoys me. I also don't believe in paying for potential that's 3-4 years away (in any sport). People should earn their money, but that's a separate rant.</B>

again, you're denying being bitter.... then getting all bitter. simms hasn't earned an nfl penny, and if he ever does, it'll be his skills that win the big signing bonus, not his name -- to say otherwise is simply a juvenile shot at him. people aren't drafted and handed large sums of cash because their dads played in the nfl.

<B>We BARELY won that game. If one ball bounces wrong, we may very well lose. I've never seen us coach like that except this year's OU & A&M. Every other game we've played in the last 4 years under Brown, we've gone right at good opponents. I honestly am starting to believe that the coaches are scared to have him do anything in big games because of exactly what happened on Saturday. When you're not willing to try to go out and win the game because you're scared of a mistake, that's terrible. It's a trend for him, not an exception. If the defense does anything besides straight man-to-man, he's completely lost. He plays well against bad teams, in my opinion, because they simply don't have the athletes, talent, or coaching to keep up with our team. There's a reason they are bad, and that's because mediocre QB's can beat them.</B>

barely won is insignificant. i mean, colorado "barely" won, will they put an asterik by their conference championship? he did what he had to do to win a game on the road in less than ideal weather conditions. the game plan was conservative, but that was because of the wind -- it was windy.

otherwise, i think you make a valid point -- again, i think coaching's at the root of his shortcomings. he's either not receiving adequate teaching, or it's not taking.

I would like to believe he could learn all these things with coaching, but these are things that just about every decent QB in the country can already see. He just makes the same mistakes over and over and over again. Major provides an enormous contrast simply because he's the exact opposite in that he's extremely bright, but even a run of the mill average QB (Chance Mock?) doesn't seem to make these kinds of mistakes on this kind of scale. Casey Clausen is a perfect example here. Tennessee needed him to not screw up to win the Tennessee game, and that's exactly what he did against a great Florida defense. We have so much talent everywhere that all we need is someone who can find what's open and not try to force things. Chance Mock was a pretty high recruit, and I'd like to see if he can do it.
well, it helps when your RB can run for 200+ yards, as clausen got saturday.

i'm not sure simms can do anything to please you at this point as you seem content on finding an excuse to rip him regardless of the situation, outcome or your own expectations, and your bias is beginning to show thru.

i've read previous posts of yours and you've ripped simms for too many underneath passes, for not stretching the field enough. now you're claiming you want a QB who will do just enough to not lose the game. yet, earlier in this very same post, you rip simms for doing just that against a&m.

which is it? what do you want from him? i get the feeling, even had he won yesterday, you'd be finding fault.

as for simms' future and abilities: qb'ing is instinctual, there's definitely an inate quality to it. on the field, simms shows he's lacking some of it. but he's also faced a landslide of expectations and pressure off of it, and i think, handled it quite well, which makes me think he might yet have something.

 

No doubt Simms had a great year, however Applewhite showed in one half that he deserves playing time. He may not have the physical tools, but he plays smart. He almost led us back after Chris gave CU 26 pts. For that he has earned a start in the Holiday Bowl. I think the pressure of Holiday Bowl might be too much for Simms - he hasn't shown otherwise (last year 0 tds, 4 ints, Texas loss).

 

You're probably right here. He's done enough. No other QB in the country would get as much slack as he's gotten with a star backup behind him.

come on, applewhite's no "star." he's a cunning, gutty QB, but not a star. you're overrating him, which tends to happen with the back-up.

Funny, because everything I've pointed out all season came true on Saturday. He can't play in the clutch or in close games. He can't hit receivers in stride. He doesn't deal well pressure. He can't read defenses. He locks onto receivers. They aren't "excuses", they are FACTS that were made all too apparently last night. Having watched both QB's for their entire careers, its very clear who was and still is the best QB on the team. You admittedly haven't even seen many of Simms' games, yet you sit here and try to tell me that Simms is the better QB?

simms looked horrible, i'm not defending his performance at all -- big stage, season on the line, he tanked. period. i'm beginning to have my doubts. but applewhite's the better QB? come on. what, in the last two years, has applewhite done to prove he's the better QB?

see, comments like that significantly weaken your arguement. simms' 2001 season surpasses applewhite's best year, as do the 10 wins. so what could possibly lead you to that conclusion?

I want all of that. I don't rip him for underneath passes. I rip him for taking underneath passes when the deep ones are open. I rip him for not looking down the field. I rip him for making stupid throws. I rip him for making dumbass decisions. He does all of these things. I expect a "star" QB to be able to throw short and deep, not lose his cool in a big game. I expect him to be able to read a defense. In case you didn't notice, we have a QB on the bench that can do all of those things. None of this is Simms' fault -- he's just not a good QB. It's the coaching staff's fault for putting him on the field. That said, he's on the field. If he can't go out and win the game for us by doing any of the above things, he sure as hell better not go out and lose it.

all of this is fair criticism. where your wheels begin to fly off, tho, is when you assume applewhite would be appreciably better. also, you're still stubbornly reluctant to give simms any due. the guy's had a pretty good year, and there's definitely something to build on.

For the A&M game -- I said he didn't have a good performance by any stretch of the imagination (133yds on 25+ passes is NOT good). The coaches dumbed down the game for him, and he did what was expected. The problem is that the coaches were too scared to lose the game because they have a QB that does dumb things. That, again, was made very apparent on Saturday.

i think this is unfair criticism. what's your excuse for benson being shut down for 3.5 quarters? i mean, a&m played a helluva game! i thought simms did, too, numbers be damned. he didn't make any mistakes; he remained patient. four weeks ago, i wouldn't have thought he had that kind of game in him. a fan of the team would've appreciated the workman-like effort. it showed maturity.

Yes, he's handled the pressure extremely well. Last three top-10 teams we've faced: 0 TD, 11 INT, 1 FUM. Excellent.

i said off the field. simms has handled himself well. so, too, has applewhite, btw. in fact, i really admire and respect the way applewhite's handled things. i like the guy, i can see why fans do, too. he's the proverbial "david."

simms is obviously the "enemy" here, but he's been mature and composed and handled people like you dogging his every move. no blow-ups or embarrasing scenes. i like his composure. if the coaches could find a way to get him to carry that to the field of play...

By the way, Benson was doing just as well Saturday before he got hurt (80 yds, 13 carries). The whole "he kicks ass with a running game" argument got thrown out the window too.

well, as i pointed out, simms was playing well early, too, but he, for whatever reason, melted down big time. got confused, then flustered. it's a fault and an area of concern.

Well, they get handed starting jobs in college for it. In all sports, people get drafted for both potential and hype. If you think otherwise, you're naive.

not hype, but certainly potential, and i've never said otherwise. and you're backtracking big time, btw. you made a comment about him getting millions because his dad's phil simms ("He's going to make millions of dollars because of his name and that's what annoys me."), a blatantly naive and juvenile comment. you never mentioned hype or potential.

btw, fyi, the nfl draft is all about potential; it's the basis for every draft pick! teams have no idea how a guy's going to play on the professional level, so they draft according to... potential.

Applewhite deserves it for his career, this half of football, and for getting screwed all season. Simply put, he deserves it because he's the better quarterback. Anyone who actually watches UT football now knows this.

yeah, again, at least you're not bitter. i'm at a loss as to how you can look at simms' numbers and at ut's ranking and conclude applewhite's better and/or would have done better. better would mean 11-1 or 12-0 -- applewhite's that much of a difference maker? simms has had a good year. he was instrumental in leading texas to 10 wins. to sit him after the colorado game would be a massive mistake, and it would also be an admission by brown that maybe he made a mistake, which he'll never do.

simms is going to start (barring injury); they need him to put colorado behind and better he do it this year than next. the bowl game is now irrelevant. all they have is next year. better right the ship.

 

No it isn't. 11-2 looks alot better than 10-3. I look for improvement in the program every year and a bowl loss would mean that wew aren't progressing. A victory would mean that we are.

We haven't finished in the top 10 since 1983. We win here and we will. We'll also be in the top 5 next year if we finish strong.

 

Hey guys, love the thread.

I have to agree with Major. Grant Noel could have gone 10-2 with the talent around Texas. It was not a special feat to be the starting QB for most of the victories, what makes players "players" is how they perform against equal or superior talent laden teams. For Chris' sake, he never did, nor will, face the latter all season. Also, considering Texas outgained every opponent and lost two close games due to primarily unforced turnovers at the QB spot, it is not a big stretch to same Major might very well had lead the team to 12-0 record and Rose Bowl birth. Surely we would have beaten CU yesterday with him there, probably would have beat OU as well because we only needed a single offensive touchdown through late in the 4th quater. Of course that is no guarantee even then we beat Miami, but I'd like our chances.

At the start of the season I thought Simms was the guy because I thought we need a superstar there and while Major was solid Simms had more physical tools. But I had no idea how good our defensen or the rest of the skills players were this year, and I assumed Simms had developed at least to an adequate football mind after 3 years of tutoring. I was wrong and realized it late (the Aggie game for sure, I had thrown out Simms performance against OU though perhaps I shouldn't have done that either), it is amazing the coaches either took longer than me to realize it or didn't have the balls to address it. I have a hard time believing they are that stupid though (didn't realize it), so it seems like their inability to swallow their pride cost us a chance at NC. That is the part that really sucks. I'd could take pride in an undertalented team that played hard and well but just came out short against superior talent, it is much harder to take pride in an talent-rich team who manages to lose because of a group of spineless coaches and an anti-clutch QB who they stubbornly refuse to pull.

 

I got a new sig.

 

UT needs to win their bowl game.

Beating a decent UW team, would be a good way to get over this CU debacle, as well as get the bowl monkey off Mack's back somewhat.

UT has a lot more to lose than to gain in this bowl game.

If UT loses this game, they will be viewed as serious chokers as well as a team that "gave up".

I don't think UT has given up, but I do know some people will pin that label on UT if they lose to UW.

 

Get your ass to BW3.

 

Did you watch UT football in 1999? The Big-12 Offensive Player of the Year? With virtually no running game?

sporadically, and he wasn't a star. no more than say... bucky richardson was a "star."

1999 Applewhite threw 1000 yards more than Simms, had a similiar completion percentage (58% or so), higher yards per attempt / completion, 20 TDs (22 for Simms), fewer INTs, higher QB rating.

1) major's QB rating in '99 was 129.4. simms’ rating this year is 133.5. now, granted, i'm no math major, but i'm pretty certain 129 is not higher than 133, so, no, applewhite's was not higher; 2) applewhite averaged 12.4 yards a catch, which yes, was indeed “higher” than simms’ – by a whopping .02 -- funny how you seemed to conveniently leave that rather pertinent fact out, isn't it? ; 3) applewhite's cumulative stats are larger because he threw 105 more passes and completed 57 more than simms did this year. At his ’01 pace, had simms thrown 467 passes (as applewhite did in ’99), his numbers would have looked like this:

simms’ projected ’01: 276/467, 3,367 yards, 28 TD, 14 INT

and i think at this point, it’s fair to point out that ut’s average margin of victory this year was 31; so i’m not even sure simms’ numbers are wholly representative of his talent or capabilities. after all, ut lead, on average, 27-11 going into the fourth quarter this year, meaning benson and the running game had long since taken over and given the passing game the night off. ut had one game this year decided by 10 or fewer points. conversely, in ’99, texas had 6 games that were decided by 10 or fewer. so the opportunities for applewhite were far greater, yet simms put up comparable numbers while seeing less action.

By the way, he also led the team to a 9-win season with a tougher schedule and far less talent at every position surrounding him. He did this without a star running back, and an improving but suspect defense (that gave up 20+ points 8 times). Simms' 2001 season IN NO WAY surpasses that season, and I'd argue it is worse than Major's partial 2000 season as well.

ut's defense, as saturday night will surely attest, is vastly overrated. i mean, if you're going to knock simms for playing a weaker schedule, the defense has to also be judged by that same standard. they’ve played one team with a decent offense, and, oh, yeah, gave up 32 points. and while, arguably, this year’s schedule was easier, '99’s was by no means the bataan death march. i mean, rutgers? iowa state? rice? yeah, real powerhouses...

In his entire career, Applewhite single-handledly lost one game (KSU in 199). He also won numerous games on his own shoulders. Simms is the exact opposite. He can lose games on his own, but he hasn't put the team on his shoulders and won any.

if memory serves, he was pretty damn good last year against a&m, i’d say he put the team on his shoulders in the third quarter of that game, so i’m not sure the total is zero. but, certainly this year, i can’t argue that. but, then again, how often has texas needed him to? when you’re winning games by 31 points…

He knows how to play QB. Simms does not. It's really that simple.

i’m not sure this point is even germane to the discussion. i’m not anti-applewhite; in fact, i’ve been rather complimentary of him. and i agree, he’s a smarter QB than simms, and yeah, i’d even go so far as to say he has more intangibles than simms.

but you’re dogging simms unfairly, and that’s been my only contention. i think there’s cause for concern, i’d even go so far as to say outright worry – simms’ game is definitely lacking something. but do you know how many 1-A teams would trade QB’s with you in a second? he’s had a pretty damn good year, and so has the team.

Outside of stats against bad teams (he struggled against OU, A&M, NC -- the three decent defenses we played; he killed Baylor, Houston, and Kansas), what exactly has he shown you? I'm seriously curious, because outside of a strong arm, I've seen very little.

i think simms is a better QB this year than last – he’s gotten better. but yeah, he does seem to struggle against the good teams, no question. but fyi, the vaunted applewhite was 1-3 against ranked teams in ’99 and threw 1 TD and 6 INT in those three losses.

No, he didn't make any mistakes, but I prefer a QB that can actually do something good also. He did nothing noteworthy in that game.

i don’t or wouldn’t give credit to simms for winning the game, but he deserves credit for doing something i didn’t think he could, which is remaining patient and playing mistake-free football. if he can’t make things happen, why force it? that’s when he gets into trouble. i’m not sure he could have won that kind of game in 2000. that shows progress.

I agree that he had a great first series. His problem is his inability to handle pressure. No biggie on the first INT. It happens. But then he proceeds to just get worse. This is a trend, not an isolated incident. That fact that the coach coddles him doesn't help things any either.

agreed – he has some problems to work out, no doubt about it.

I didn't think the leap was that big. He has the hype because of his name. He was on SI covers because of his name. He'll get paid based on hype.

he was and is hyped because he had a phenomenal high school career and possesses a boatload of skills, which makes him an intriguing prospect; not to mention, he plays for a highly visible university with a lot of talent. if his last name was jones, he’d still be receiving equal amounts of hype. and, fyi, he’s never been on the cover of SI.

Yes, I think Applewhite would have been 11-1 or 12-0. Name one game UT played that we might have lost with Applewhite? We killed weenie teams to get our 10 wins. I don't doubt that Simms is better at blowing out teams than Applewhite. In the 2 losses, though, Simms lost both of those games w/ 8 turnovers. We'd be somewhere between 11-1 and 12-0 with Applewhite. Who knows what would have happened in the OU game, but results Saturday would have been pretty clear.

applewhite was 1-3 against ranked teams in ’99 with 6 interceptions. what in creation are you basing your 12-0, 11-1 projections on? and while you dog simms for doing what he has to do against ranked teams... didn't applewhite and the longhorns lose to a pretty bad stanford team last year?

just because simms couldn’t get it done doesn’t mean applewhite would have; that’s supposition of the highest order and it’s based on nothing. and that’s the crux of my argument – simms’ failures (and there have obviously been some) do not in any way, shape or form impact applewhite’s ability to get things done.

 

His 4 INT's seemed to impact Applewhite's ability to win the CU game. He has also impacted Applewhite's ability to get on the field this year and prove how much better he is.

 

Ric, if the '99 Texas squad played the '01 Texas squad, who do you think would win?

The '01 squad of course. The '01 squad on offense has Williams, Johnson, Thomas, and Benson compared to the '99 squad's Cavil, Thompson, Nunez, and Mitchell. The '01 squad has more depth and talent.

Texas had 5 losses that year: 1) NC State - 3 blocked punts, 2) Kansas State - 6 Applewhite turnovers, 3) Texas A&M - bonfire game - Major not 100%, 4) Nebraska - overmatched, 5) Arkansas - Major hurt.

Major was named Big 12 offensive player of the year. How many of those losses can be attributed to Major? Maybe 2. That's not bad at all with the '99 squad who really had no chance of winning the Big 12.

The '01 team has 2 losses: 1) OU - Simms 4 int's, 2) Colorado - 4 Simms turnovers.

Every loss can be attributed to Simms. Keep in mind Simms did not have to face KSU or Nebraska. The Horns played 3 ranked opponents in '01 - 1-2 record. Texas was favored to win all 3.

 

my one and only contention is that the applewhite faction has a) been overly harsh, unfair and downright unappreciative of simms' efforts. while not heisman-worthy, they certainly don't merit such venom and scorn; b) falsely made major into the orange messiah. it's blinded you to the realities of simms' fine season.

i watched both games ut lost this year, and frankly, the better teams (on those paticular days) won, and simms wasn't the reason oklahoma and colorado were better. that's, of course, conjecture on my part, but so, too, is the notion that applewhite would have done any better. no, simms certainly didn't help matters, but ou's defense was awesome, and texas had no running game to relieve any pressure from their QB, and colorado's offensive line was simply dominated the game, as they did against nebraska. applewhite doesn't counter either of those facets.

my take on simms is that he's better this year than last but didn't make near the leap he should have. but i'm withholding ultimate judgement until i see how he responds in the bowl game -- i think we'll see if this kid has any heart and whether or not he's a leader.

 

I don't see it Ric. In both losses UT outgained their opponents. Usually in such circumstances the only way you lose is via turnovers, and as far I can remember, they solely were due to the QB spot manned by Mr Simms. Further, expcet for the last OU's RW one, most of them would not qualify as "forced" by the defense as much as mental mistakes.

Attributing 32 points to the defense is kind of laughable as well. You could have put the Ravens defense out there an CU would have still scored, what, 16, without moving the ball a hard. I don't remember how many times CU had touchdown drives of even half the field, but it wasn't very many. UT's defensive effort wasn't great, but it most certainly would have been enough had the offense not made unforced errors.

I think what is crystal clear to most of us is that UT didn't need a Joey Harrington to get to the Rose Bowl, just a guy to not make frequent mental errors. In hindsight only the most stubborn should be able to admit Major was the better choice for the big games.

 

If Simms can't read college defenses what chance in hell does he have in the NFL? He has proven himself to be uncoachable. He makes the same mistakes as he did during his freshman year.
Just a few of his many shortcomings:
He has no field vision.
Cannot find wide open receivers.
Constantly gets passes batted down at the line of scrimmage.
Stares down receivers.
Cannot read defenses.
Cannot pick up the blitz.
Cannot call the right audible.

But hey, that's okay because he throws a pretty spiral, right?

Simms is just another Ryan Leaf. All physical talent, no brain. Remember some of the successful QB's in the NFL weren't exactly collegiate greats:

Jay Fielder
Jeff Garcia
Elvis Grbac (backup at Michigan)
Shane Matthews

A smart QB is more important than a physically gifted one.

 

i do think coaching is a factor, in some capacity, but that it's not necessarily simms' fault. what kind of track record does brown and davis have with developing QB's?

he's either not getting the coaching he needs, or he is, and it's not taking (which would be simms' fault). i won't speculate as to which it may be, but the weaknesses you mention (most of which, i agree with) would seem to be correctable thru proper coaching, wouldn't you say?

that's unfair, for starters, because leaf was a better college QB! but he's also immature and a jerk and couldn't handle pressure or, more specifically, adversity. simms has shown to be a better person than leaf by the way he's handled applewhite and that whole situation, which is another reason i think he has something.

and fyi, you just listed three of the most mediocre qb's in the nfl today -- you might want to rethink your position on that one...

 

major, we've used up enough of clutch's bandwidth on this, but i'd be happy to continue the debate thru email -- ric@houstonprofootball.com.

 

And all of them will be in the playoffs this year.