So, Russians Committed Espionage to give the Presidency to Its Stooge, and We're Just Gonna Take It?

The Democrats won't likely have "no say" as it is unlikely that Trump will be able to get approval from all Republicans in the House and Senate.

Having said that, the Democrats will not have any say for at least two years, as their will be mid term elections. There are no guarantees, but historically the party with total control loses badly in the mid terms.

The idea that "the voters voted accordingly" doesn't really make sense because the popular vote has gone to Hillary Clinton.

Concerning accepting the outcome of the election; Trump won the election under the rules we have used for a long time. People don't have to like Trump but they need to accept he won. If they don't like him, they can organize and insure that he doesn't win re-election and that the Republicans lose in the mid terms. The protests are worthless IMO. They have the right to peacefully protest, but their better off working to ensure he isn't re-elected.

 

I don't think Russia is a dangerous threat to American interests. Their economy is in shambles. What American interests are they specifically trying to impede? I can't think of any major ones. What can they actually stop America from doing? Nothing.

Currently, the only major one is our flip flop under Obama of opposing Assad. From my limited knowledge of the situation I tend to think the Russians are more correct to support Assad.

Of course we are closer to German values than we are to Russian values. That doesn't mean we have to be completely opposed to Russia. I don't think becoming more friendly with Russia means we are running away from the rest of the world.

Honestly, I think you are being melodramatic over this. Come on Sam you have to know that a warming of relations doesn't mean the US and Russia are going to agree on everything overnight. The Russians aren't going to be plundering our government and running wild in DC. It's like you are jumping from point A all the way to point Z with this potential detente. Come on man...relax a bit...

Plus we already have alliances with dictatorships and oppressive regimes. You seem to have been pretty quiet when Obama was doing it during his two terms. Also you could use the paragraph I bolded as an argument for other nations to shun America. We have been extremely reckless with some of our military interventions as you know.

This might be a bit abstract and off topic but did you feel America was taking the wrong step when we tried to open up to Iran and Cuba? How do our values line up with those nations? Have they invaded the American government since we have liberalized ties? Were you on the Republican bandwagon protesting our deals with Iran?

How do you feel about America having solid ties with Muslim nations? Which values are more American? German values or the values of the vast majority of Muslim nations? Do you think having ties with Muslim nations undermines our ability to promote equal rights for all? Are you freaking out over any of these things?

Honestly you are kind of arguing against yourself Sam. You talk about being apart of a global society. However, you seem to imply that we should only promote our American interests and we should not ally or work with nations that don't share our interests in that global society. To me that position you seem to imply sounds relatively isolationist.

 

Honestly, who cares about Russia? The vast majority of their country is frozen shitland. For example, Yakutsk has the largest seasonal temperature fluctuation of any major city in the world. Less than 100 years ago the Russians were being decimated by famine, political purges, and invading countries. Today, the life expectancy of Russian males is 66! My they've come a long way.

Is @SamFisher still having nightmares about the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan as some sort of premonition of a complete Soviet take-over of the middle east? Let's say that Russia does "take over" the middle east, so what? The US, directly, is less reliant on middle eastern imports than it was in the 1970's and 1980's. Besides, high oil prices are a win for the climate alarmists. Let's rejoice.

 

If both parties had held ther candidates to high standards, we would have had 2 different finalists. I missed your unbiased focus when Obama came in to office in 08. Missed you on the threads after the election calling Trump supporters idiots too.

There are several posters arguing the popular vote here in this forum as justification for protesting. I don't think Fox planted them. You can move the goal posts if you like on the Not My President declarations. But that's certainly a stretch.

Many of the protests have gotten out of hand. I hope you're not going to dispute that. These youngsters need to constructively deal with disappointment.

 

Then it shouldn't be a problem showing the specifics of it, should it, hmmmm? Note that this would not just be where the hacks came from, but evidence indicating it was undertaken by the Russian government with the specific intent of influencing the elections? Or, do your facebook feeds not have that level of detail, so you just have to resort to mindless rhetoric? Sorry if detail is out of your league, perhaps I can have a conversation over at the adult table.

 

The Republicans won't allow that. 70% of the US provides to no real value to this country. You have Cali, Texas, and NY, but what does the rest of US provide. If we got rid of Mississippi and Alabama who would really care. Most of the innovation happen in California. Most of the Finance is in NY. Energy happens in Texas.

 

No one has provided a "yellow cake" moment of proof to anyone, and until that comes, you sound like a slavaphobe. Crack open a Baltika, make a pot of solyanka, read some Strugatsky Brothers, listen to Jenia Lubich, брат, and calm down.

 

This may have been posted already, I don't know, but if so, many here appear to have missed it. This is aimed at the bizarre response from members who seem to not care that Russia actively interfered with our democratic elections for reasons of their own. From the Council on Foreign Relations:

Note to Trump, Putin Is Not Our Friend

“There shouldn’t be any doubt in anybody’s minds, this was not something that was done casually, this was not something that was done by chance, this was not a target that was selected purely arbitrarily. This was a conscious effort by a nation-state to attempt to achieve a specific effect.”

That was Adm. Michael Rogers, head of the National Security Agency, speaking this week about the pre-election hack of Democratic Party and Clinton campaign personnel emails. Translated from bureaucratese, what he meant was that the hack was undertaken by Vladimir Putin to influence the U.S. election. U.S. intelligence chiefs will not go so far as to say that Putin’s intent was to elect Donald Trump — it’s also possible that the Russian leader just wanted to sow dissension — but it’s pretty significant that the Kremlin made no attempt to steal and release emails from the Republican campaign.

And why would they? Trump repeatedly praised Putin as a “strong leader,” and refused to criticize him for anything. He even refused to accept the U.S. intelligence community judgment that Putin was behind the DNC leaks. He did, however, suggest that NATO might be “obsolete,” that he might not defend the Baltic republics from Russian aggression, and that he might lift sanctions on Russia — in other words, he might enact Putin’s dream list of American policies.

After Trump won, Russians close to Putin were openly cheering. “Today I want to ride around Moscow with an American flag in the window, if I can find a flag,” tweeted Margarita Simonyan, editor in chief of the Kremlin’s propaganda organ, RT. And Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov admitted that the Kremlin had maintained contacts with Trump during the campaign: “Obviously we know most of the people from his entourage.”

http://www.cfr.org/russian-federation/note-trump-putin-not-our-friend/p38508

 

According to Air Langhi, food is not a real value. Liberal Logic 101.

And here I thought Liberals were the party of intelligence. Most of innovation comes from California What would I do w/out facebook, twitter, instagram, ect ...

 

The unintended irony of this post is amazing.

 

Indeed. The density of some of the minds in this forum is somewhere in the vicinity of lead.

 

For ****'s sake, I voted a straight Democratic Party ticket despite hating the Clintons my entire adult life because I fully understand what a terrible idea electing Donald Trump to office represents. Enough with the histrionics and fallacy.

I am not the one making a claim. You are. I am a reasonably rational person that is willing to change my position in the light of evidence. Until that happens, please stop insulting me just because I'm asking you to calm down and not jump to conclusions and stop presuming that anyone that disagrees with you is a braindead Trump supporter.

As an underemployed person who currently works as an IT manager for the State of Texas, I think asking for the same threshold of evidence that my department would require to make a similar claim is reasonable. I manage over 1000 servers at UT -- those logs are full of malignant attempts to either gain access or cause DoS and most of the originating IPs are from China or Russia. I suspect that's all the evidence they have.

If someone managed to steal research, shut down the functionality of the university's IT infrastructure, or steal confidential personal information from a student of faculty member, shrugging my shoulders and crying to my boss that security was breached by act of FSB, I would be looked at as a crazy person trying to deflect and looking for another job. I don't have a problem with Senator Grahm's investigation and I'm happy to accept whatever it concludes. Let the counter-intelligence and IT experts in the FBI do their job. If they find credible evidence I will be happy to stand with you in outrage.

You do understand, that when you and Decker make an appeal to authority by quoting a federal VIP that backs the "Russia stole the election" canard, you are no different than what the neo-cons did in the early aughts quoting the Cheney and Perle and Wolfowitz claims about Iraq. And you even do what they did -- call out anyone that doesn't agree with you as a delusional or a traitor. It's poisonous and not constructive in light of the actual threat of the Trump presidency that is now upon us.

Russian human intelligence has always specialized in undermining faith and confidence. That's how they roll. The JFK assassination is a good example. The KGB had nothing to do with it, but benefited greatly from the uncertainty that came with conspiracies they intentionally spread redbaiting paranoia amongst the proles. I suspect that if there is any involvement by the Russian Federation to influence US politics, the bulk of it is likely happening on message boards and social media more than anything else.

Bottom line is, I trust the system, with all it's faults, and my complaints about it, while plenty, are not beyond reform by reasonable people already elected to it's legislature. When you question the system when you don't like the results, you are sowing seeds of entropy and you are acting as irresponsibly as the truthers and birthers and other mouth breathers that have plagued the body politic for the last decade and a half.

 

The story of how the intelligence community came to pinpoint Russian involvement is interesting. I am pretty disappointed our media isn't giving the story more attention. Shouldn't be left to the likes of Esquire to do the investigative work.

So I guess the consensus, right now, is still that the collective "we" are just gonna take it...

 

i think the consensus opinion is "so what?"

It wasn't what the Russians did that caused Hillary to lose the election. Sure it's dickish that they tried to interfere, and things need to be done to prevent it in the future, but it's just not that big a deal. Maybe some Democrats care and want to use it as a scapegoat for why they lost, but that's just not the case. The same people pretending to be outraged would be congratulating wikileaks if they released anything that might have helped them.

 

Since you bumped this thread, Sam, I'm bumping this post.

 

Russia trades natural gas right here on mcninney St in downtown Houston

Putiin gets all his money to do all his terrinle is from selling natty to the rest of Europe

Nothing else matters