Pro-Life = Anti-Fertility Clinic http://www.haloscan.com/tb/radicalruss/111704342115045851/ http://thomas.loc.gov/ The House has just passed a bill, HR 810, which would free up federal funding to go toward scientific research on embryonic stem cells. Now, Bush, who hasn't vetoed a single piece of legislation in his five years as president, is ready to veto this measure to satisfy his "culture of life" base. Because them li'l fertilized embryos -- just a few little undifferentiated cells kept frozen in a petri dish -- are just really tiny pre-born babies who should not be experimented with, even if it would save the lives of some already-born adults with awful diseases. Think about that. The "culture of life" would rather that suffering people die than to allow medical science to find a way to help them live. OK, but what about the pre-born babies? Surely it is consistent to want to save them, right? Well, no. Got that? We taxpayers cannot fund the research into embryonic stem cells, because those li'l pre-born babies are life that must not be experimented on, but instead those pre-born babies should just be thrown away. We can't use their embryonic stem cells because they could have been, but never will be babies. See, there's all these fertility clinics that harvest eggs and sperm and try to get them to fertilize in a test tube. This takes a lot of eggs and sperm, because it's not a perfect process. For every one embryo they implant in a lady's tummy, there's many more that are kept in freezers and eventually thrown away. I often see news stories where some pro-life red-state childless couple goes to one of these fertility clinics to get pregnant. Nine months later, they have a baby, or sometimes a litter of babies. I never hear the pro-life forces complaining about that. Isn't it awfully selfish of these couples to create a bunch of li'l pre-born babies to be discarded -- killed -- just so they can have their own li'l infant? Why, that sounds like creating life to destroy it. If there were any consistency to the pro-life position, then they would be protesting fertility clinics. The existence of these clinics guarantees the destruction of embryos. You can't support test tube babies to cure infertility while simultaneously opposing embryonic stem cell research that may cure Alzheimer's. Whether they're being killed by a scientist's experimentation or a janitor emptying the trash, embryos are being killed. The only other morally consistent option is for pro-life women to line up at the fertility clinics and volunteer to have all those unwanted embryos implanted in their wombs. Talk about your Leave No Child Behind! We'll have to work out the issues of transferring parental rights -- I'm not so sure every fertility clinic client would want their genetic offspring raised by a pro-life zealot. But only when absolutely no embryos (and their stem cells) are being wasted can it be morally tenable to oppose the federal funding of embryonic stem cell research. Otherwise, it is tantamount to saying, "Sorry, grandpa, we have to throw away your potential cure and abort these little embryos because we're opposed to the abortion of little embryos." Hey, I like this idea that we taxpayers should not have to fund anything that violates our principles and causes the death of innocent human beings. I'll be expecting the Treasury refund check for my portion of taxes that funded this Iraq War; I understand that has killed some actually-born babies!
Frist probably knows a lot of facts about the issue but any good idealogue knows to not let the facts get in the way of ideology.
What's ironic about all of this is that stem cell research might actually hold the promise of actually treating people like Terry Schiavo. There's no other medical technology that could regrow brain tissue.
We can give props to the Repubs with enough sense to vote for a REAL culutre of life but this entire thread is moot, unfortunately...The House doesn't have the votes to overturn Bush's eventual veto.
Doesn't matter Americans by a 2-1 margin support stem cell research and say it should be funded by the federal government, despite controversy over its use of human embryos. The veto will show the world (and more important America) how out of set the administration is. And may very well affect the mid terms.
The President should veto this bill. It is a wrong allocation of Federal money. This isn't a bill declaring whether Stem-Cell research is right or wrong. This is a bill about paying for stem-cell research with Federal funds. Stem-Cell research should, rightly, be funded through the private sector. After all, they are the ones who will be profiting from it. Jeez, for all the who-hollering on this board about wanting more social security and free healthcare plans, y'all are really shooting yourself in the foot by trying to pass this. In essence, you are asking the Gov. to put more money into the medical field, negating any discounts on your healthcare costs, while supporting the Gov. to find ways to get the baby boomers to live longer, which will create even larger deficits in Social Security, while wanting to keep Social Security on a low guaranteed rate. What Shangri-La do y'all live in? How is the Gov. supposed to afford all of this? Why in the hell are people expecting the Gov. to do anything more than Transportation, pollution, and National security? I'm dumbfounded. According to Democrats, not only can you have your cake and eat it too, but you also get cash back! Talk about your short-sightedness.
Don't make me laugh. Too late. Where should I start? By funding stem cell research federally, it allows the government to create rules and regulations on how stem cell research is to proceed. Also, historically, the government grants are the best ways to advance science since private companies will only fund projects that will pay off sooner rather than later. Second, considering how much this REPUBLICAN government is spending, I can't believe you have the audacity to call out democrats on their spending habits. Third, Socical Security will be fine for another 35 years. Fourth, Rich Republicans are the ones getting their cash back Fifth, to improve transportation, pollution, and national security, they can stop spending so much on defense. I'll stop there for now.
Read my response to Langal. Federal funding has other implications than just the money spent directly on research. It also has to do with access to the NIH infrastructure. It also means that the government has very little say in the direction of stem cell research since without have a stake in funding they can't apply ethical guidelines that will be widely adopted.
The Gov. has been placing ethical laws on the books since its inception. Funding won't change anything regarding ethics and guidelines.
The purse stings, however, do direct what type of research is done. And the infrastructure that's available to that research.
lol. you are just like bigtexxx... let me see if I can respond like you guys do: Where's the proof. As usual, you guys provide no links with your post. Nothing to see here. Move along.
Its not a matter of passing laws since as of now there are no laws directly prohibiting stem cell research, human cloning, creating animal human hybrids and all sorts of things. What I'm talking about is NIH guidelines that aren't laws but help to direct research in medical fields. The only reason those guidelines have force is that so much medical research goes through the NIH that those guidelines become accepted practice in the field. By exec. order the NIH cannot do anything regarding embryonic stem cells so there is no reason to follow NIH guidelines.
You have a lot more patience than me in explaining (often repeating) point after point to people who takes a stance with no more than a passing knowledge on the subject.
Martian Man; Not always. Even I get tired of responding to the tidal wave of material cranked out by some of those I disagree with, which is why I've given up on the Evolution / ID thread for now at least. What can I say I enjoy debating, have a penchant for pedanticism and have a narcisstic love of reading my own posts.
