You can be mad at both of them if you want but when it comes down the bottom line Beltran pulled the trigger and not Boras. He is the lone gun man and you can say what you want about Boras that he might have manipulated him or whatever but if you are an adult you make your own decisions and Beltran made his and pulled the trigger to not come to the astros.
The 119 million includes the 11 million bonus. Therefore, all in all, the contract comes out to 119 million new york dollars.
Wrong way to look at it. If you overpay like that, all you will eventually end up with is a broken down car and no means to get another. We had NO reason to believe that $15M a year wouldn't get it done. Not after Pujols (who would have been the prized FA had he not resigned with the Cards so early) and Vlad (the prized FA last year) got $14M. The Reds WAY overspent on Griffey using precisely your logic. They have handcuffed their franchise for the next decade. Part of smart business is knowing when to walk away from a deal...even if it's a commodity that you really need.
It would have been outstanding if you just left "correct" but then you had to put in that longass space, *another pet peeve*, so I have to downgrade it to a 4.0 from a 9.0. I am just kidding if you can't tell.
Here's the problem with your analysis...this isn't the only offseason we'll ever have. He's not the only free agent we'll ever bid on. We're not preparing for the only season, ever. You don't make 7 year commitments overpaying market value based on that sort of analysis. Here's my take: We heard over and over again that if Beltran we're driving the boat, the Astros would be in good shape. If he wasn't, we were in trouble. I think that played out. Beltran empowered Boras to negotiate, I'm sure. And I don't know what the communication was. But, as everyone said, Boras controlled the negotiations. He called you...and if they waited until that late in the game to start negotiating the details of the agreement, beyond dollars, then we got played, pure and simple. Nothing else to it. I'm disappointed, mostly, because it detracts of my opinion of Beltran. This was the guy who told people over and over that it would be different with him...that it wasn't about the cash. Ultimately, that's all it was about. Despite all the crap about wanting to play in a warm-weather environment and his wife's affection for the city, and wanting to play for a winner... it was all about the cash. He went to a second-rate organization with second-rate facilities and a meddlesome owner (just ask Art Howe). I agree with Refman. I said that all last week. It's the same thing Steinbrenner said. You just haven't shown me that Beltran deserves to be paid MORE than the AL MVP, Vlad, or the best hitter in baseball who isn't named Bonds, Pujuols. Sorry. I don't see it. I wouldn't have matched at $17mill/year if it were my money, either. And I think it's very telling that no one else even got close to that. The Astros time expired, and Boras didn't wait more than 12 hours before jumping on the Mets' offer. No one was gonna get anywhere near that.
No time to readl all the posts, so maybe this was pointed out. Isn't the Mets deal virtually equal to the Astros offer considering the NY state AND City income taxes? Doh.
Has anybody considered that the Astros' offseason plan all along was to use the Beltran pursuit as an excuse to cut payroll? I don't think these people are stupid so I find it hard to believe that knowing that Beltran had the negotiating advantage due to the Astros' Jan. 8 deadline that they thought their best play was to make a "final" offer below the agent's demands if their goals were really to improve the team. Now the organization can blame everything on Beltran, tell us how hard they pursued the free agent having to let guys like Kent and Miller go to create cap space to sign Beltran when they never really intended to sign him in the first place. I wouldn't put it past this organization given their spending history. Don't agree that the Astros' organization is cheap? I challenge you to name a top-notched free agent that this organization has signed in the last 10 years that did not give Houston a home town discount ala Pettite, Kent, and Clemens. Hell, even Biggio and Bagwell have taken less money to remain in Houston. When this team gets talent, its not because they went all out to get it. It's because they (A) developed the talent in their minor leagues, (B) got a home town discount, or (C) traded for a player with an expiring contract (whom they did not resign in the offseason). Those are the facts apologists.
dude, he was offered over $100 million!!!! are you kidding?? they were trying to cut payroll?? wow..that would have backfired like crazy had he taken their offer!!! kent didn't give a hometown discount...he just didn't get the value he thought he would get. it wasn't a conspiracy, deuce. they made a legit offer. one on par with the greatest in the game right now. the mets overpaid. that's it.
You are missing my point. I don't argue the fact that maybe the Astros could become strapped 6 years down the line...or even 3 yrs down the line....I dont think anyone would dispute that. My issue is that the Astros made the decision to go after this guy knowing full well what the financial implications were...all the while, letting several other guys who could have helped us go elsewhere. They went to a gun fight with a toy gun and hoped to win. Now, the fans and the rest of the team will pay the price.
Then we should have walked away after the winter meetings and turned our attention elsewhere.....Instead, we ignored all other possibilities and never made other arrangements
hindsight is 20/20, NJ. we didn't know that. we thought we had a good shot. to hear mclane and purpura talk, they thought they had a better than 50-50 shot. they offered in excess of $100 million, paying him what is being paid to the greatest players in the game right now, whether he deserved that or not. and what was the opportunity cost?? J.D. Drew?? Moises Alou?? i wouldn't have been particularly inspired by either of those...partiuclarly over the long term. this offseason was, in many ways, a one-trick pony. and again..this isn't the only offseason ever. it won't be the last. the astros made a big league offer. he went for $17 mill/year. i've yet to hear one analyst say the mets did anything but overpay.
I thought the holdup was not the total contract value, it was the lack of a signing bonus by the Stros and, more importantly, a no-trade clause requested by Boras and refused by the Stros. My initial thought is that, if this is true, that information is something the Astros should have been aware of long before the zero hour. If (a) Beltran was unwilling to do a deal without a no-trade, and (b) the Stros were unwilling to give one, then it seems to me that they should have turned their attention elsewhere long ago.
Hindsight???? What on earth are you talking about? We all knew from day 1 that the Astros had ONE goal this offseason.....and that was to land Beltran. I don't give a frog's fat ass if they thought they hada better than 80/20 chance...let alone 50/50. You are completely missing the entire point here....im not asking them to have hindsight, THEY SHOULD HAVE HAD FORESIGHT and realized that if they targeted ONE guy, they would have to go deeper into their pockets than they would have HAD THEY HAD A PLAN B.
To me the above post is really the bottom line when you sift through all the B.S. Don't take everything you hear from the organization (or Boras for that matter) at face value. Analyze what transpired and try to figure out what makes sense. "We ran out of time" and the whole "it was about the no-trade clause" stories that are out there don't hold much water with me. What makes to sense to me is smart businessmen made a decision to offer Beltran less than market value, hope he takes the offer, and if he doesn't its still a win-win scenario because we got to cut some payroll justifiably. McLane has never done anything to show me that winning is his bottom line. Winning is only acceptable at the right price to McLane and unfortunately McLane's price is not competitive enough to sign top notch free agents.
Boras ran the negotiations. He determined what got talked about..and when. It's why Purpura kept saying, "you can't call us at 10 on Sat. night and say, Ok..let's get this deal done...because it will be too late."
I'm still PO'd about this...It's not because of anything we did...we had a very very competitive offer...Its that ahole agent and yes, even Beltran... You can't say its not about the money, when obviously it was...just be honest, yes, its about financial security...I hope the Mets suck arse for the next 7 years...
Deeper?? They were offering to pay a guy who hit under .270...whose career aveage is around .280...a contract on par with guys like Pujuols and Guerrero who both have career averages that exceed .325, with better power numbers to boot. Beltran's offer here matched that. I argued that was overpaying, but I'd do it. But for $3 million more a year??? Are you kidding?? No freaking way! Not if it means you're hamstrung from this point forward. Again...you act like this was the only free agent EVER. Like he's the only talent we could ever bid on. This isn't just about next year, NJ...it's about 7 freaking years. And by the way...if they had not have pursued Beltran, how would that be perceived? If they hadn't gone on going all the way up over $100 million, how would that have been looked at. Again...damned if you do...damned if you don't. You can lament losing this guy all you want. I wish he were still with us too. But no way, no way would I want the Astros to pay $17 million to a guy, locked in...WITH NO TRADE CLAUSE!!! for 7 freaking years. No freaking way.
i happen to agree with the above sentiment. i find it very hard to believe that this deal fell through solely because of a "no trade" clause. astros brass should've known that if this was all we were gonna do this offseason and make it priority #1, you do everything possible to get it done. they didn't, and now we're S-C-R-E-W-E-D.
The Astros were obviously not very concerned with his stats in comparison to Vlad and Pujols when they made him their ONLY target....knowing it would take over 100 million to land him. As for a no trade clause...you have to be kidding. Players waive no trade clauses all the time. No trade clauses only help a middle of the road player who doesn't want to uproot his family. Players of Beltran's calibur waive them all the time.
