[OFFICIAL] Potential Dem brokered covention thread

I agree that Pete has the best case for staying in but he does not have a realistic lane to the nomination and he is still young, he will live to fight another day and he should go out on a high note.

 

Dude you don't get it, he is principled.

The irony in his rebuttal was what use is it if you are literate if you are censured from reading things.

I am not gonna lie a little piece of me died while listening to that.

 

I understand this is an unshakeable article of faith for the Bernie people, with the theory being that he would somehow soak up populist votes that went to Trump while overcoming everything he loses to Hillary in states that aren't as kind to him. This is a logical leap by itself, even at the time.

But, you know, since the empirical evidence shows that most of those same Trump voters have spent the last 3.5 years becoming even more Trumpy and even more enthusiastically super-racist, it's even more dubious now than it was then. They didn't vote for Trump because he was populist in spite of the racism, they voted for him because he was populist and because of the racism.

 

There is a reason Bernie polled better against Trump than Hillary. Far more of America has a negative view of Hillary than they do of Bernie.

 

How about taking over health care, seeking to eliminate private healthcare (Dems ultimate goal) and then taxing people (shared responsibility act) if they dont want to partake in your socialized medicine - is that dictator-ish?

Dems are about bigger govt - they want the govt to control everything thereby expanding their power... and govt spending is never done efficiently.... Fixing health care would be a good thing - cap deductibles and premiums... but this whole socialized medicine is just a power grab by the Dems... imo...

 

I'm a fan of Bernie and don't mind him becoming the nominee.

But

The oppo research folder on him is feet thick. People dislike/disliked him less than Hillary because he didn't get the 24/7 right wing media blast because he didn't become the nominee. If he wins nomination, there will be absolute nonstop media about his visit to Cuba, comments on Russia when he was younger, red scare stuff. The line of attack on him is clear, though to be fair, that's true of all the candidates.

 

Bernie's never been a frontrunner before, so he's never really faced significant criticism or sustained attacks. No one's ever spent any significant time/effort to tear down Bernie because he's never really been a threat. Even until this week, all the moderates were focused on each other far more than Bernie. From what I'm reading, that's changed this week and this debate tonight is going to be a change in approach. It should be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

Yeah, Hillary polled better than Trump too. And in fact, got millions more votes. But obviously that didn't work out.

Anyway, the baseline for your argument is that being called a communist and exposed to negative press and Russian hacking for 6 months would have done no damage on Bernie, and that he would have consolidated all of HIlary's support, and that the highly racial/white supremacist strain of Trump's support would have been blunted. And furthermore, all of these things would have happened in the right places, at teh right times, electorally,

Most of your assumptions are incredibly speculative. It's one thing to say "if only Chris Paul hadn't gotten injured in the last minute of game 5 in 2018, the Rockets would have beaten Golden State!".

It's another thing to say "If only the Rockets had kept Robert Covington in 2014 we'd be champions right now!"

It's not a very solid case. And frankly, teh fact that Bernie couldn't go 24 hours from his high water mark without getting in trouble for bringing up Fidel Castro should not instill very much confidence in your prognostication here.

But, like I said, I know Bernie people see this as an article of religious faith, so I don't expect you to agree.

 

We don't have a time machine, but there is no question that Bernie polled better head to head against Trump than Hillary did. There is no question Bernie had the much higher favorability rating than Hillary did. I feel pretty comfortable saying that James Comey would not have announced re-opening an investigation into Bernie Sanders a week before the election.

Might Bernie have become a disaster once he was head to head with Trump? Sure it is possible, but we don't have reason to believe that. For me, they both got the candidate they needed to get in order to win. Trump was able to take advantage, Hillary was not.

 

The difference is nobody views Bernie Sanders as a liar. Plenty of people don't like his policies (myself included), but he's authentic in a place you rarely see it. Hillary is just easier to dislike as a person. It is what makes Bernie not releasing more medical records such a disappointment, because it is a rare chance to attack something beyond policy for him.

I was originally going to vote for Warren, but now I'm largely undecided.

 

Love or hate Bernie Sanders......... this is the most "Bernie" gif there is.........

 

Nah, Sanders has reached out to James Carville and Larry the Cable Guy to lock up the rural vote.....

Sanders is already running this bad boy commercial directed by Rob Zombie and Billy Bob Thornton.

 

This doesn't seem correct today. Bernie's polling seems to bring out a ton of anti-Bernie voters:

However, the “Bernie or bust” phenomenon appears almost entirely limited to left-leaning young people, who are usually a small share of the overall electorate. This stands in contrast to many theories of Sanders’s electoral appeal: For example, whites without a college degree — a demographic some speculate Sanders could win over — are actually more likely to say they will vote for Trump against Sanders than against the other Democrats. The same is true of the rest of the electorate, except left-leaning young people.​

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...sanders-electability-president-moderates-data

 

Seriously. In many (most?) elections in America if there isn't a majority we go to a runoff.

We can't do a true runoff in a national primary so you either say, whoever got the most votes win or you have a multiple ballot system of some sort. Parties didn't come up with this to screw candidates, they came up with it because of the real possibility that in a fractured race you could have someone with the most votes only because the held a solid minority.

 

why not? We've seen it endlessly in the primaries when a candidate like Warren or Biden or even Pete surged and then got hit with sustained incoming fire and people had second thoughts. Or in the GOP primaries with Perry, Cruz, Carson, etc. Until now, Bernie's never actually been a favorite and never been the target of anyone. Why do we think that he would be immune to the things every other candidate goes through?

 

I still want an explanation from @Space Ghost about how the Dem Party is acting like dictators or from @fchowd0311 on how the party isn't adhering to our Constitutional values, given that the Electoral College solution to a non-majority is literally only superdelegates.

 

Maybe .... but maybe that's what saves us from a Bernie nomination and reaches a brokered convention.

 

Well, when the framers got together something something Bernie or bust.

 

Bernie is a socialist who has praised many communist regimes in his lifetime. AOC is a naive young socialist. They both want to give away everything for free promising someone else will pay for it. Both endorse the catastrophe known as the Green New Deal. There is much more wrong with Bernie than just hating the ultra rich. In fact most socialist/communist regimes start by demonizing the rich before they seize control by force or through the ballot box only to concentrate wealth in the hands of much fewer people leaving everyone else on equal footing (in abject poverty).

 

You do realize that Trump has enacted a more socialist policy than Bernie has even proposed right? Donald Trump who you've said you will vote for has enacted more socialism than Obama did during his two terms, and more than Bernie has even proposed to enact in his campaign.