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[Official] Joe 2020

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by justtxyank, Apr 25, 2019.

  1. RayRay10

    RayRay10 Houstonian

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  2. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Contributing Member
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    Just another lie Trump and sons love posting themselves. It's them that have the most to lose, not the typical middle class Americans.
     
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  3. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    https://theweek.com/speedreads/932568/how-democrats-shellacked-2022

    This is how Democrats get shellacked in 2022
    12:49 p.m.
    Ryan Cooper

    In the 2010 midterms, Democrats were routed because they did not completely fix the Great Recession. Obama economic adviser Larry Summers deliberately lowballed the Recovery Act stimulus in 2009, and Obama himself pivoted to austerity by early 2010. As a result, unemployment was nearly 10 percent on Election Day that year, and the Democrats were swept at the federal and state levels. In the words of Obama, it was a "shellacking."

    Biden adviser Ted Kaufman, who is in charge of Joe Biden's transition team, signaled in comments to the Wall Street Journal that a Biden administration may make the exact same mistake again. "When we get in, the pantry is going to be bare," he said. "When you see what Trump’s done to the deficit … forget about COVID-19, all the deficits that he built with the incredible tax cuts. So we’re going to be limited."

    As a factual matter, Kaufman is grotesquely mistaken on at least two levels. The economy will still be in a deep hole next year, and I have argued before, so long as the economy is below capacity, the American government can borrow without limit. The pantry is not "bare" — on the contrary, bond markets are howling for the government to issue more debt so there will be a goodly supply of safe assets. Second, even if one is worried about the national debt, it is self-defeating to try to cut it down before full employment is reached. As none other than Larry Summers demonstrated in a paper with economist Brad DeLong after his Recovery Act faceplant, borrowing to stimulate during a recession literally more than pays for itself by preventing economic damage and boosting future tax revenue.

    The most important fact about economic policy over the last 12 years, learned at a terrible cost in both Europe and the U.S., is this: Austerity during a recession makes everything worse.

    All this is truly unfortunate to hear from Kaufman, who is one of the more progressive advisers on Biden's team, and served well in Biden's Senate seat for two years attacking Wall Street corruption. But unless this kind of thinking is stamped out immediately, a Biden administration will make Democrats lose the 2022 midterms just like they did in 2010.
    Ryan Cooper
     
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  4. RayRay10

    RayRay10 Houstonian

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    Yep...this is worrisome...and likely leads us back to the same situation we were in 2016 come 2024.
     
  5. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    I thought that was a decent piece and something I hadn't really thought about
     
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  6. RayRay10

    RayRay10 Houstonian

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    It really was...I have been and continue to be worried that a Biden presidency will look exactly like the Obama presidency...which means that the party learned nothing from their mistakes in the past.

    Did you see Cooper's article yesterday...I don't think I saw you post it...very good read which kind of expounds on the link you posted above:

    https://theweek.com/articles/932075/joe-biden-already-planning-failed-presidency

    Joe Biden is already planning a failed presidency

    More at the link above
     
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  7. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    "Obama let severe problems fester for eight years, let war crimes galore go unpunished, and helped secure the nomination of his unpopular former secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, as his successor. She lost to a game show clown."

    ouch. but so very true.
     
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  8. dmoneybangbang

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  9. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    While I think obama made mistakes and being tocatious was one of them but IMO this guy is using things to fit his narrative.

    The reason Dems lost in 2010 was mainly because Republicans and the Tea party demonized Obamacare and the deficit.

    Obama was also bad at messaging and never tooted his own horn and let people know what he actually accomplished.

    So we are just gonna forget about the 2008 financial crises now and how he built a more stable economy?

    This seems to be a my way or the highway type of argument, this part is very telling.

    With Bernie Sanders defeated, it is now up to Biden and his advisers whether he wants to try a repeat of the Obama formula that provided a lot of cushy consulting gigs for Democratic insiders and stuck the nation with Trump. They can have another couple years of fat profits selling the American people down the river to corporate swine, or they can have a democratic republic. They cannot have both.
     
  10. RayRay10

    RayRay10 Houstonian

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    And, I do see that he is pushing a certain argument, but do you see Biden being any better at messaging than Obama was?

    Obama was extremely intelligent, was a relatively good speaker, but didn't want to rock the boat too much (outside of Obamacare) and he got crushed by the Tea Party while very nearly ending up as a one-term president. The issue now, is that Biden is going to be in a fairly similar situation that Obama was when he takes office. Besides the fact that we currently have 10% unemployment, we haven't even hit the nadir of our economic problems...somehow retail has maintained their sales throughout all of this...but, I doubt that continues through the holidays with this many people out of work. Many companies will miss sales targets this winter and either go through rounds of lay-offs and/or shutter there doors. And, yes, it won't be Biden's fault, just as it wasn't Obama's fault.

    However, you know that the right is immediately going to jump and shout and gnash their teeth at the job loss numbers in 1Q and 2Q 2021 and blame them on Biden because they did the same exact thing when Obama took office...he didn't last a month before our entire economic issues where because of him. What the author is trying to state is that Obama didn't take it seriously enough early on...tried to not rock the boat while slowly implementing things that would turn things around. Problem was, in 2010, we still had 10% unemployment and the Tea Party was formed.

    Biden has to immediately target unemployment...talk about it at least weekly (along with COVID response because he gets to pick up the check if things are still going badly there as well) and do his best to make people feel that he's at least trying. As the author points out, the worry is that this will be another Obama-like presidency, Biden will probably start turning things around, but the message won't get out, we'll still have 10%+ unemployment come 2022, and then the GOP will come sweepinig back in to gum everything up again (and likely elect a new or old problem in 2024). At that point, we'll have won the battle, but lost the war in trying to progress forward as a country.
     
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  11. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    plus the other thing is that we're still going to be dealing with covid at this point next summer, and people will no longer have Trump to blame for it dragging on endlessly
     
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  12. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Obama was cautious to a fault and thought good work spoke for itself, he was also black wich is a backlash Biden will not face.

    I don't know the answer but its not as simple as just do what Obama did not, You also have the specter of the Republicans losing all credibility since 2010, I can tell you this if Biden and his administration overreaches they will be giving the republicans a huge leg up on gaining a foothold.

    I think Biden and his group learned a lot as well as Obama it will also help to have Harris who can carry that message.

    I think the Author is more worried about a progressive agenda than what went wrong because there is no guarantee what he said should have happened would have worked.

    I really don't see messaging being an issue.
     
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  13. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Like Trump is still not blaming stuff on Obama right?
     
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  14. RayRay10

    RayRay10 Houstonian

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    You aren't wrong...the answer is definitely more complicated and likely won't be fixed even if Biden is able to accomplish most of what he sets out to do. He's going to have a ton on his plate: COVID, the economy, severe income inequality, huge budget deficit, a need to mend foreign affairs, a need to crack down on other foreign agents, voting rights, police brutality...the list goes on and on.

    But, we need him to do more than just get us back to four years ago...we need some long-term solutions to those problems as well as something to ensure we don't see another takeover of the government like we have these last 4 years.

    Of course, that means that we need to see the party come together to work on implementing even baby steps and not fighting over every thing. The far left needs to understand that we can get where they want, but it takes time...they need to see the forest through the trees. We can't have situations like we have with the post office where we now have a complete GOP block running it due to Bernie Sanders blocking Obama. At some point, they have to compromise and understand that they can't have everything just because they want it.
     
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  15. RayRay10

    RayRay10 Houstonian

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  16. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    He isn't making it easy to vote for him with this kind of crap.
     
  17. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    Well he has al ready sown the distrust so that will still be his fault. The delayed response will still be his fault. The delayed response will still be his fault.
     
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  18. RayRay10

    RayRay10 Houstonian

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    I'll overlook it...he did say "family" and not "team"
     
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  19. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    every Houston Rocket fan should vote for the other guy now
     
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  20. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    People seem to forget that Obama left office with essentially full employment when he came in with record unemployment.

    Obama's record certainly isn't perfect but these arguments seem disingenuous.

    Also these arguments for doom for the Democrats in 2022, or some posters are talking about 2028, ignore what is happening now. If the argument is that a future Biden administration is going to use austerity what about about what's going on now? The current Trump administration is hemming and hawing on taking steps to address the current crisis. They've passed some small half measures through EO but my most accounts this administration is failing to in negotiations with Democrats or using the their political capital to press Congressional Republicans to make an agreement.

    In other words we have austerity in the face of a crisis not from intentional policy but because of lack of leadership.

    We can worry about what Biden might do but right now we are facing a crisis that isn't getting better under the current president...
     

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