[Official] Andrew Yang for President 2020 Thread

Yeah, I don't believe this at all. Trucking is not going to become automated. Wait til some company gets sued out of existence when a robot truck crashes and kills people. The trucking companies won't do it.

 

Man, your takes are so bad I feel like your trolling.

So based of your statement, I presume you don’t work nor have you ever worked in your entire life, nor does anybody else on this forum, nor anybody in the USA that doesn’t make at least 2.2 million dollars per year.

Why make such a statement?

 

Re: Trolling.... I have a very different view than certain posters here ascribe to. The MSM and much of society sells us a narrative. To be sure, I don't mind undermining the "pretty lies."

UBI is one of those "pretty lies."

Yes, I work of course; that's the reason I'm not on here as much as some other people. That's why I can't slavishly follow the news like some here do.

If you work hard and use your head, study your market, have something to sell that people want -- you will succeed. It's just that a lot of people don't want to do those things.

Thus, they talk about "UBI", "income inequality", etc etc.

 

So I'm guessing you do realize how incredibly bad your statement is - that only a fraction of the top percent work, correct?

You're just extremely out of touch with the direction of our economy and showcase it about every time you post. If you are doing well financially, have a good paying job and things are working out well due to your hard work and dedication, then I'm happy for you, I mean that.

That still doesn't mean your personal situation is reflective on America's working class, that still doesn't reflect the direction our economy is headed for the vast majority of the working class in America. It's not because people aren't working hard, it's not because people don't study, or use their head, opportunities for well-paying jobs in America are dwindling due to automation and technological advancement, cost of living and education is rising rapidly, the rich (fraction of a percent) are just absorbing all near all newly generated wealth without it ever getting back into the hands of the working class.

 

I watched the entire podcast, I think the reason he has everybody getting "the dividend" is so he can break it off from the mindset that it's "welfare" for political reasons. Only 9% of the working class makes over 100k per year. so for 91% of the working class 12k per year be a significant amount of money that would decentivize people for making certain benchmarks of money if you were to make a cut off at any particular income amount within 100k. It also cuts the need for management expenses of having to determine peoples incomes. I get the argument for a cut off after a clear comfortable income (say 50-70k a year range per person), I guess that wouldn't be UBI anymore but more so a reverse tax like the one Milton Friedman layed out.

Your numbers aren't exactly what he said but he didn't explain it properly and actually has holes in his numbers now that I double checked

1.2 trillion in current welfare $
800 billion in VAT
400 billion for tax receipts
200 in health care, prison, homeless savings

That's 2.6 trillion, the additional trillion he mentioned isn't entirely additional but included the 400 billion for tax receipts, 200 in health care/prison savings. So he didn't specify the missing 400 billion bridge to 1.8 trillion. I'll have to find another statement on what his exact plan is number by number, it does worry me that he didn't explain it better.

I think you mentioned in a later post, and we likely agree, you're open to UBI if it can be layed out properly in a way that makes sense. Yang may, or may not be able to that.

Why does a standard VAT tax make sense for basically all other developed (and many undeveloped) countries, but not the US?

 

You simply do not know what the hell you are talking about. It's amazing to read what some people can write just because they can. It's just lol to be honest.

"believe" lol

 

Well, I appreciate your well wishes, and I'll concede this: you make a thoughtful, intelligent post.

Though, I have to say that I'm not sure what you mean by "only a fraction of the top percent work, correct?" Are you meaning to say that the top 10% wealthiest don't work 9-5 jobs? Or have "jobs" at all?

If this is what you mean, I would say: well, of course they don't. Neither would you or I (or anyone here) if they were in the top 10%. We'd enjoy our lives more. Perhaps unlike you, I don't begrudge them this. If I am understanding you correctly.

I'm sure there are some people that work hard that can't get ahead. But almost always (notice I didn't say always), there's some unfortunate decision they have made in their life: they did it to themselves. Sometimes, they continue to do it to themselves, over and over. There's all kinds of dysfunctional behaviors. Bad relationships. Bad spending choices. Bad choices (or at least non-productive choices) of how they spend their leisure time. I see this over and over, among friends and acquaintances; and in the news in general.

Nor does this make them necessarily bad people. But I see people being their own worst enemies all the time, and that impacts their economic lives. Here's an example: how does spend one's Friday, Saturday or Sunday night? At the club? Or seeking and thinking of ways to make more income? If a person is in a tight economic spot, I would say they need to be focusing all their time on ways to get ahead economically.

Yes, a bad thing can happen to a good person. Unfortunately, it happens all the time. A good person can find themselves in a tight economic spot, for sure. But a good person, with only decent intelligence and decent work ethic (they don't have to be superman), doesn't stay in a bad economic situation year after year. Thus my opposition to something like UBI.

Of course, UBI is a bad idea for other reasons, namely that if you give everybody $1k a month, all that happens is that prices rise and no one is better off.

And so, we all make generalizations based on our life experiences. The above are mine.

And, I do wish you well, as well.

 

Just a quick reply. I appreciate the detailed, thoughtful post. You make several intelligent arguments, and I shall study and consider them.

Though, I'm not sure I agree with some or even much of it, at a quick glance. I can't see trucking jobs being replaced. That's way too dangerous to be left to computers. The insurance costs alone would make it prohibitive, I think.

The 50% figure I have seen elsewhere. I don't deny things are changing rapidly.

But what has enabled man to become the "apex predator" or the top of the food chain etc? His ability to adapt. We've always had to adapt. From the industrial revolution on (maybe before that too).

Are we saying that people cannot, or simply will not adapt to a new economic landscape?

 

So, help me out. Instead of tossing borderline insults, please tell me: How I am wrong?

 

We will eventually have automated fleets. However the idea that it will all be fully automated in 10 years is utterly ridiculous. We are still a few years off before we even consider going mainstream automation, and that is just for long hauls. There is still plenty of jobs for local freight deliveries.

When it comes to UBI, i am not sure why the echo chamber is using truckers as their pet example.

I dont mind UBI in a serious discussion. Im not a fan of the chicken little mentality.

 

yeah I think he is trolling but I am starting to believe he is really that ignorant.

 

UBI can't work because it creates an inflation feedback loop in theory, tell me how in practice this won't be the case and then people will have a serious discussion about it. It is not sound economic policy.

 

I don't think your understanding me correctly.

I posted -

You replied -

I replied

If you read what you replied to my post, you will see that you basically said a fraction of the wealthiest one percent in the country are the portion that actually works. Which is insinuating that the rest of the population doesn't actually work. That was a seriously ridiculous statement to make, perhaps you didn't realize what you were saying or replying to?

 

I have never heard of UBI For All outside of Yang. His nonsense is not even worth discussing.

I am more supportive of a UBI as a supplement provided there are legit programs that turn people into productive members in society.

As I mentioned before, there are basic needs every human should be given. Money is not one of them. If a person does not wish to be productive and expects society to take care of them, then we should create communties that give them a small room for shelter, a community kitchen with food and basic medical needs.

 

Nothing is just given. To expect money for not wanting to be a worker in society is silly and selfish. This idea that society must provide for all is utopian nonesense and a nice way to dodge the harsh reality of the world we have always lived in.

Even welfare today is taken, not given. People have collectively, through governmental and political force, taken that money from others.

 

Couple points here -

1) Population increases aren't necessarily good for us , one thing that's set us apart from most other countries is our population density being relatively low and having lots of resources spread among a smaller number of people.


2) Population increases are desired / needed by the gubmint to support our debt load. Without increased population we simply cannot service the debt going forward - its at unsustainable levels per capita.

We're really doing future generations a terrible disservice on both fronts - debt and population density.

 

My solution is a bit different …. look at the NBA CBA and how it distributes profits between the players and owners. I like something similar on a national level - share the wealth with those who help make it instead of CEO's making 300-400x the average joe.

This is definitely NOT factual. Its common knowledge that these migrant workers send remittances back to their country of origin.

I worked with many immigrants at a large Houston manufacturer - legal and illegal - those who were here on visa , to a man all took significant amounts of money back to their countries of origin as did their illegal counterparts who returned.

 

See my other post, how do you think they send money anywhere? That's right, using local financial services of some kind. Also, I'm 1st generation American, extended family still lives in Mexico. Trust me, money sent back isn't nearly as much as you think. These folks have to live and make a life on meager wages, they do that by spending all their money.