1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

[NYPO] Bari Weiss resigns from New York Times, slams Twitter as being their ‘ultimate editor’

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Os Trigonum, Jul 14, 2020.

  1. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    47,767
    Likes Received:
    36,684
    I mean these are platitudes to me. What is she specifically referring to? Ya cancel culture exists but in relation to the employees of NYT, what is she specifically referring to? Apparently she claims her co-workers called her a Nazi. Does she have evidence?

    I'm always skeptical of these type of events because there is a very big grifting opportunity for Weiss here and I don't know how much of that is influencing her rhetoric.
     
  2. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    37,999
    Likes Received:
    15,462
    I'm not skeptical at all, because this is an all too common behavior in online communities where people are very comfortable launching personal attacks without face to face contact as a way to discourage opinions they don't like. I see it here as well (I've experienced it now and then, and I think you have as well for expressing unfavorable opinions about Harden).
     
  3. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    72,919
    Likes Received:
    111,107
    bingo!

    ImpartialGoldenCattle-size_restricted.gif
     
    RayRay10 likes this.
  4. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    37,717
    Likes Received:
    18,918
    But who tried to silence her? She only complained about colleagues mocking her, not of anyone trying to get her fired or silence her.
     
    RayRay10 likes this.
  5. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    72,919
    Likes Received:
    111,107
    if you've ever been bullied, intimidated, or harassed at work, I don't think you'd be so cavalier about her experience
     
    RayRay10 likes this.
  6. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    37,717
    Likes Received:
    18,918
    Except she wasn't bullied, intimidated, nor harassed at work. At least she didn't point to any examples of that.
     
    jiggyfly and RayRay10 like this.
  7. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    72,919
    Likes Received:
    111,107
    https://www.bariweiss.com/resignation-letter

    "My own forays into Wrongthink have made me the subject of constant bullying by colleagues who disagree with my views. They have called me a Nazi and a racist; I have learned to brush off comments about how I’m 'writing about the Jews again.' Several colleagues perceived to be friendly with me were badgered by coworkers. My work and my character are openly demeaned on company-wide Slack channels where masthead editors regularly weigh in. There, some coworkers insist I need to be rooted out if this company is to be a truly 'inclusive' one, while others post ax emojis next to my name. Still other New York Times employees publicly smear me as a liar and a bigot on Twitter with no fear that harassing me will be met with appropriate action. They never are."​
     
    Astrodome and RayRay10 like this.
  8. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    72,919
    Likes Received:
    111,107
    Weiss continues:

    "There are terms for all of this: unlawful discrimination, hostile work environment, and constructive discharge. I’m no legal expert. But I know that this is wrong.

    "I do not understand how you have allowed this kind of behavior to go on inside your company in full view of the paper’s entire staff and the public. And I certainly can’t square how you and other Times leaders have stood by while simultaneously praising me in private for my courage. Showing up for work as a centrist at an American newspaper should not require bravery."​
     
    RayRay10 likes this.
  9. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    72,919
    Likes Received:
    111,107
    Here's the whole letter:

    Dear A.G.,

    It is with sadness that I write to tell you that I am resigning from The New York Times.

    I joined the paper with gratitude and optimism three years ago. I was hired with the goal of bringing in voices that would not otherwise appear in your pages: first-time writers, centrists, conservatives and others who would not naturally think of The Times as their home. The reason for this effort was clear: The paper’s failure to anticipate the outcome of the 2016 election meant that it didn’t have a firm grasp of the country it covers. Dean Baquet and others have admitted as much on various occasions. The priority in Opinion was to help redress that critical shortcoming.

    I was honored to be part of that effort, led by James Bennet. I am proud of my work as a writer and as an editor. Among those I helped bring to our pages: the Venezuelan dissident Wuilly Arteaga; the Iranian chess champion Dorsa Derakhshani; and the Hong Kong Christian democrat Derek Lam. Also: Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Masih Alinejad, Zaina Arafat, Elna Baker, Rachael Denhollander, Matti Friedman, Nick Gillespie, Heather Heying, Randall Kennedy, Julius Krein, Monica Lewinsky, Glenn Loury, Jesse Singal, Ali Soufan, Chloe Valdary, Thomas Chatterton Williams, Wesley Yang, and many others.

    But the lessons that ought to have followed the election—lessons about the importance of understanding other Americans, the necessity of resisting tribalism, and the centrality of the free exchange of ideas to a democratic society—have not been learned. Instead, a new consensus has emerged in the press, but perhaps especially at this paper: that truth isn’t a process of collective discovery, but an orthodoxy already known to an enlightened few whose job is to inform everyone else.

    Twitter is not on the masthead of The New York Times. But Twitter has become its ultimate editor. As the ethics and mores of that platform have become those of the paper, the paper itself has increasingly become a kind of performance space. Stories are chosen and told in a way to satisfy the narrowest of audiences, rather than to allow a curious public to read about the world and then draw their own conclusions. I was always taught that journalists were charged with writing the first rough draft of history. Now, history itself is one more ephemeral thing molded to fit the needs of a predetermined narrative.

    My own forays into Wrongthink have made me the subject of constant bullying by colleagues who disagree with my views. They have called me a Nazi and a racist; I have learned to brush off comments about how I’m “writing about the Jews again.” Several colleagues perceived to be friendly with me were badgered by coworkers. My work and my character are openly demeaned on company-wide Slack channels where masthead editors regularly weigh in. There, some coworkers insist I need to be rooted out if this company is to be a truly “inclusive” one, while others post ax emojis next to my name. Still other New York Times employees publicly smear me as a liar and a bigot on Twitter with no fear that harassing me will be met with appropriate action. They never are.

    There are terms for all of this: unlawful discrimination, hostile work environment, and constructive discharge. I’m no legal expert. But I know that this is wrong.

    I do not understand how you have allowed this kind of behavior to go on inside your company in full view of the paper’s entire staff and the public. And I certainly can’t square how you and other Times leaders have stood by while simultaneously praising me in private for my courage. Showing up for work as a centrist at an American newspaper should not require bravery.

    Part of me wishes I could say that my experience was unique. But the truth is that intellectual curiosity—let alone risk-taking—is now a liability at The Times. Why edit something challenging to our readers, or write something bold only to go through the numbing process of making it ideologically kosher, when we can assure ourselves of job security (and clicks) by publishing our 4000th op-ed arguing that Donald Trump is a unique danger to the country and the world? And so self-censorship has become the norm.

    What rules that remain at The Times are applied with extreme selectivity. If a person’s ideology is in keeping with the new orthodoxy, they and their work remain unscrutinized. Everyone else lives in fear of the digital thunderdome. Online venom is excused so long as it is directed at the proper targets.

    Op-eds that would have easily been published just two years ago would now get an editor or a writer in serious trouble, if not fired. If a piece is perceived as likely to inspire backlash internally or on social media, the editor or writer avoids pitching it. If she feels strongly enough to suggest it, she is quickly steered to safer ground. And if, every now and then, she succeeds in getting a piece published that does not explicitly promote progressive causes, it happens only after every line is carefully massaged, negotiated and caveated.

    It took the paper two days and two jobs to say that the Tom Cotton op-ed “fell short of our standards.” We attached an editor’s note on a travel story about Jaffa shortly after it was published because it “failed to touch on important aspects of Jaffa’s makeup and its history.” But there is still none appended to Cheryl Strayed’s fawning interview with the writer Alice Walker, a proud anti-Semite who believes in lizard Illuminati.

    The paper of record is, more and more, the record of those living in a distant galaxy, one whose concerns are profoundly removed from the lives of most people. This is a galaxy in which, to choose just a few recent examples, the Soviet space program is lauded for its “diversity”; the doxxing of teenagers in the name of justice is condoned; and the worst caste systems in human history includes the United States alongside Nazi Germany.

    Even now, I am confident that most people at The Times do not hold these views. Yet they are cowed by those who do. Why? Perhaps because they believe the ultimate goal is righteous. Perhaps because they believe that they will be granted protection if they nod along as the coin of our realm—language—is degraded in service to an ever-shifting laundry list of right causes. Perhaps because there are millions of unemployed people in this country and they feel lucky to have a job in a contracting industry.

    Or perhaps it is because they know that, nowadays, standing up for principle at the paper does not win plaudits. It puts a target on your back. Too wise to post on Slack, they write to me privately about the “new McCarthyism” that has taken root at the paper of record.

    All this bodes ill, especially for independent-minded young writers and editors paying close attention to what they’ll have to do to advance in their careers. Rule One: Speak your mind at your own peril. Rule Two: Never risk commissioning a story that goes against the narrative. Rule Three: Never believe an editor or publisher who urges you to go against the grain. Eventually, the publisher will cave to the mob, the editor will get fired or reassigned, and you’ll be hung out to dry.

    For these young writers and editors, there is one consolation. As places like The Times and other once-great journalistic institutions betray their standards and lose sight of their principles, Americans still hunger for news that is accurate, opinions that are vital, and debate that is sincere. I hear from these people every day. “An independent press is not a liberal ideal or a progressive ideal or a democratic ideal. It’s an American ideal,” you said a few years ago. I couldn’t agree more. America is a great country that deserves a great newspaper.

    None of this means that some of the most talented journalists in the world don’t still labor for this newspaper. They do, which is what makes the illiberal environment especially heartbreaking. I will be, as ever, a dedicated reader of their work. But I can no longer do the work that you brought me here to do—the work that Adolph Ochs described in that famous 1896 statement: “to make of the columns of The New York Times a forum for the consideration of all questions of public importance, and to that end to invite intelligent discussion from all shades of opinion.”

    Ochs’s idea is one of the best I’ve encountered. And I’ve always comforted myself with the notion that the best ideas win out. But ideas cannot win on their own. They need a voice. They need a hearing. Above all, they must be backed by people willing to live by them.

    Sincerely,



    Bari​
     
    RayRay10 likes this.
  10. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2000
    Messages:
    18,283
    Likes Received:
    13,543
    Sometimes when people dont like you, it's because you are unlikable

    I was surprised to learn she has a sister, seems like a classic only child.
     
    RayRay10 likes this.
  11. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    72,919
    Likes Received:
    111,107
    and sometimes when people blame the victim, it's because they blame the victim
     
    RayRay10 likes this.
  12. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2000
    Messages:
    18,283
    Likes Received:
    13,543
    Yea, I dont know her - never heard her of her before this happened - but I already find her pretty unlikable just reading her words the last two days.

    If you say things that other people disagree with, and have super strong opinions about everything, you should have thick enough skin to know that everybody isnt going to love and adore you and deal with it.

    Do you cry to yourself every night that clutchfans are mean to you Os? Does it bother you when people don't love you for posting the 40th article from "The Federalist" this month? Or do you suck it up and post the 41st?
     
    #72 Ottomaton, Jul 15, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2020
  13. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,853
    I missed that, thanks.
     
    Invisible Fan and RayRay10 like this.
  14. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,853
    Joe Rogan and Andy Ngo got a raw deal?
     
    RayRay10 likes this.
  15. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Messages:
    26,731
    Likes Received:
    3,479
    Lee Fang deserved to be fired just for having a girls name.
     
  16. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,853
    I agree intolerance goes both ways and that's why I am against cancel culture, it's too black and white.

    Thanks for the clarification.
     
    RayRay10 likes this.
  17. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    72,919
    Likes Received:
    111,107
    Andrew Yang is disappoint

     
    RayRay10 likes this.
  18. Rashmon

    Rashmon Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2000
    Messages:
    19,264
    Likes Received:
    14,484
    No. He's not...
     
    Invisible Fan and RayRay10 like this.
  19. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    37,999
    Likes Received:
    15,462
    What are these super strong opinions you are talking about that justifies the hostile reaction she has received within her work environment? And if you barely know of her, how do you know that she has super strong opinions about everything, anyway?

    I understand the need for some boundaries to allow people to interact with each other in a mutually respectful way. But people also need to recognize that for some polarizing issues people can just take very different sides and there needs to be a willingness to "respectfully disagree" in those circumstances. That doesn't mean don't assert your own beliefs on why the opposing opinion is really bad, maybe even dangerous. But it does mean don't assume someone else must be a fatally flawed human being for holding those opinions.
     
    RayRay10 likes this.
  20. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    37,717
    Likes Received:
    18,918
    Definition of a hostile workplace is in regards to protected classes - she doesn't make a reference to that. As for bullying, she still doesn't site any example.

    Outside of those accusations and the ones where she is being attacked on Twitter by colleagues, she should be able to produce some of these tweets. I find it incredible that no one has posted a tweet from a colleague where she is being smeared as "a liar and a bigot" on Twitter. Where are these tweets? You'd think Commodore would be posting them up here like there was no tomorrow.

    Her accusations of bullying should be investigated - but what's in her letter is over the top. She took all that "abuse" before deciding to act? The NYTimes isn't perfect, but I've never heard of ANY organization tolerating what her accusations are. It sounds very dramatized and there is no one backing up her accusations nor is there any proof of them.
     
    jiggyfly and RayRay10 like this.

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now