Ok so Im watching the Buc-Rams matchup and for those who didn't watch the game Bucs down 11-6. Bucs are driving with less than a minute left. Shawn King completes a huge pass to a diving Bert Emmanuel (I believe) for a gain of about 15 yards to around the 20 of the Rams. I believe for a 1st. He catches the ball with his hands outstretched diving back towards the line of scrimmage. Pulls it into his body, has total control of it, but catches the ball on the sides. As he falls, the balls tip touches the ground first. Mind you that he had already caught it, and pulled it into his body. No bobble, or juggle, No question. Not one Ram even attempts to dispute the call, to include the coaches. Ahhh but any replay under 2 minutes belongs to the officiating crew. Hold up. They call it incomplete! Ludicrous. Absolutely the worst call ever. Simply because there was a replay involved. So instead of 1st and 10 on the 20 with 47 secs left, it becomes 3rd and long from about the 36 or 38. And to think it wasn't even Phil Luckett involoved this time.
EXACTLY!!! There was no need by the replay booth to call a review of that. This call can be fuel for the "Conspiracy Theorists". That call was wrong and whoever was in that booth and the ref. needs to be fired. Rob ------------------ visit my website @ http://members.xoom.com/bayoucitybob/
What totally boggles my mind is what they were trying to say nullified the catch? I mean a ball is allowed to touch the ground first if the Player has complete controll, which it can't even be said that he didn't. I could understand the call if it was a bad angle. Like the Titans miracle play, or if he bobbled it. But it was clearly, and I mean cleary shown through replay that it was a catch.
Yeah, and the fact that Tampa has no offense whatsoever had nothing to do with the fact that they lost. If they would have made the right call, they surely would have scored a touchdown right?
The reason why this is an issue, is b/c TB would have had a BETTER chance to have tried to win the game. Officals are never supposed to put their mark on the outcome for the game. Now I agree that TB probably would not have scored, but they deserved the chance to Try to Score. That's what we are complaining about and even though TB had 3rd and 4th downs after that play, a 1st down around the 25 with :49 is a hell of a lot better than 3rd and 4th down from the 45. ------------------ visit my website @ http://members.xoom.com/bayoucitybob/
It still would have been third and 10 from where he caught it, at least that's what Mr. Senile and Madden were saying. So the game wasn't decided on that call. I do admit however, that it was a horrible call, but one that did not cost Tampa the game. A spectacular and amazing catch by Prohel cost Tampa the game. You can never blame an official, unless he calls you out of bounds on a touchdown when you are clearly in bounds, ala Oilers/Steelers in the 70s. Plus, St. Louis is my office pool team, so I'd be singing a different tune if Tampa was my team.
You can never blame an official, unless he calls you out of bounds on a touchdown when you are clearly in bounds, ala Oilers/Steelers in the 70s. Tell that to most Rockets fans after Game 1 of the playoffs last year That being said, I agree. Officials make mistakes and that's life. This particular call was freaky since it didn't seem like there was an evidence, let alone the absolute proof needed to overturn a call. But overall, NFL Instant-Replay has been an incredibly good thing. It's better to get the call right than having people after the game blaming bad officiating or saying "they didn't win, the refs beat us" etc. My only change to the rule would be to allow coaches to ask for Reviews in the last 2 minutes if they have a timeout to burn on it. Also, make more clear what can and can't be reviewed and why (why can't a bobble be reviewed?). [This message has been edited by shanna (edited January 24, 2000).]
That call did cost them the game. Madden was just trying to eliminate a contraversy by saying that it didn't. He and Summerall both know what an impact that call had. Summerall was just afraid to say it. Did you hear him hesitate and then agree with Madden. He knew. You've got to be kidding if you didn't think that call influenced the game. 3rd and twenty versus 3rd and 10. That changes everything for Tampa. It was huge. I agree that catch should not have been over-turned. The refs are there to fix any injustice. There was no injustice on that play. The Rams thought he caught it too. Play on and let the players decide it. Not only that, but what a waste of a timeout for Tampa. They spent the whole time-out deciding on a play for third and 10. Not for third and twenty. So it really did have an impact on the game. That timeout was a waste for Tampa.
That replay booth was absolutely awful for that game. I more or less think it is a good thing (replay), but I have seen them blow a number of calls-particularly on catches. If the guy establishes control of it (the receiver clearly did first), it doesn't matter if part of the ball touches the ground as long as the guy is secure with it. It only matters if the ball is an aid to control the ball. In partial defense of the refs--like I said it the outset, I have seen them incorrectly overrule incompletions before on this same principle. I don't think it is conspiracy because I have seen it before, but they need to clarify this rule a bit, it is a shame to see some great catches negated because of this (it is bad for the game). That said, even with the catch, I give the Bucs less than a 50% chance to win that game. Shaun King was so awful and used such poor judgement and was so inaccurate, I just doubt they would have got the touchdown. Same old problem with the Bucs, a QB among the worst in the league. He totally cost them the game.
The NFL vidio replay in the NFL is the dumbest thing Ive ever seen.With that stupid little TV on the sideline. In Australia our major sports (Rugby League and Cricket) use a different system. What it involves basically is match ref in a box in the stands.When the ref is unsure of a call (The coaches dont "Buzz" him) he goes to the vidio ref.The vidio ref make the decision and depending on the Sport he gives an indication via either a red or green light in the stadium (For Cricket) or in the Rugby League (Americans would LOVE Rugby League) the desision is conveyed via the big screen at the stadium. There is less fuss,less stoppage time,less crowd influence and more correct desisions. On the cates that the ball touches the ground.Isnt a catch effected when the player has controll of the ball before it touches the ground? I'd say about 50% of catches in the NFL would see the ball touch the ground at some time.As long as the player has full control of the ball before it touches the ground it should be a fair catch in my opinion. ------------------ Your Starting Power Forward for the Clutch City Allstars My Expert Opinion Of Steve Francis:Mate he is a special player!
Mate, I don't mean to sound stupid, but how do you play cricket? It's looks funny to me. The only thing I know about that game is that baseball was supposedly invented to be a faster form of it. Which is funny because baseball is the slowest and perhaps the most boring sport (too many people) in the United States. Is cricket fun? Fun to watch? Austrailian Football rules.
Firstly australian rules football sux.Its played by girls. (Just letting you know ) Cricket...How can i explain this to an American.I understand that most Americans think "Cricket,what a slow boring sport". Crickets is a game of played in 2 forms.5 day test matches and 1 day matchs. The 5 day matches are the standard.Its all about run accumulation.Yes it can be slow and to someone who dosent know what they are really watching it would be boring.But when you know what going on (Bowler vs batter,pitch changes,changes to the ball condition....) its very intresting. The One day matches are more exciting for a non cricket person.They are played over about 8 hours and there is alot of run scoring action.Its about getting the most runs you can in a limited amount of overs. I understand I could never get the whole reason cricket fun to play and watch across.It is quite foreign to people from the US and it is very diffrent concept from any US Sports. One last think on cricket (Cricket in an NFL post....who would have thought that could happen!) Australia is the undisputed World Champions at it (Like most other sports we play).Its a game you watch while having a beer with mates.5 days of drinking beer with mates....you see why we like it ------------------ Your Starting Power Forward for the Clutch City Allstars My Expert Opinion Of Steve Francis:Mate he is a special player!
Don't forget the wasted timeout on the King fumble earlier in the game. If Tampa doesn't waste that challenge, they would have had an extra timeout to work with on the last drive. 10 yards doesn't decide a game.
Yeah, that time out was wasted. What can you say, but to them 7 yards was worth risking it. Which explains to me why 10 yards was also importnat to them. I get the gist of what you are trying to say, but that's not what I believe. I believe 10 yards does make a difference. I believe that Seattle being denied one yard versus the New York Jets kept them out of last years playoff. That was only one yard. And that did make a difference. There are a couple of plays during every game that make a difference. Those plays are turning points. You could say that Tampa should have never let it get to that point, but thats irrelevant, they were at that point. The 10 yards changed their whole plan of attack. The difference is they probably don't throw a hail mary on 4th down if they are 10 yards closer. I like replay, and maybe it was the right call by official rules (this was never really discussed which upset me), but to put them back 10 yards, in my opinion, hurt their chances of winning. It did not take them away, but it changed the whole game plan from that point forward. [This message has been edited by PhiSlammaJamma (edited January 24, 2000).]
Actually, RM95, on that Tampa Bay timeout, Dungy had a good argument. If you read what he was saying on the sideline, he said the ball clearly flew forward when it came out of his hand. The only way for a ball to fly forward when dropped is if the hand is moving forward, thus making it a (terrible) forward pass. On the other hand, that should then have been intentional grounding.... I feel sorry for Dungy with the Instant Replay... He's like 2-10 in calls dealing with the Bucs, and I think the league actually apologized to him for missing instant replay calls earlier in the season..
From my knowledge of football, I always thought a receiver had to have possession of the ball with two feet or a knee on the ground to be a catch. The ground can't cause a fumble, but it can cause an incompletion if the feet and knee aren't on the ground. The receiver had two hands on the ball with a knee on the ground. 3rd and 10 vs 3rd and 23. That is a big deal. TB needs two good plays or one great play to make a first for 23, where one good play or two pedestrian plays makes a first. FYI: The ground can cause a fumble if the player accidently hits the ball on the ground without actually going down.
If Tampa Bay had any timeouts, the difference between 10 yards and 23 yards would be huge. They could easily run the ball once for 5-7 yards, and then pass for 3. However, they cannot pass worth a crap. For them, a 10 yard pass is just as hard as a 23 yard pass. THE BAD CALL DID NOT COST THEM THE GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE FACT THAT THE KATY TIGERS HAVE A BETTER OFFENSE THAN THEM COST THEM THE GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [This message has been edited by Rocketman95 (edited January 25, 2000).]
R95, I have to say that last post was rather witty. In actuallity, TB does okay with short passes, but is horrendous when throwing down the field. Asking them to get a 3rd a 23 is like asking them to get 3rd and 40. Either way it is a hail mary. The call didn't cost them the game. It did make it atleast ten times as dificult.
Rocketman: (Relax this is NOT sarcasm) Thank you for confirming what I have known for years. Pat Summerall is SENILE. Period. No amount of nostalgia, good will, or any other warm fuzzy feeling should keep him in the booth. He is a distraction. Every time he says "Tampa Bay" or "Los Angeles" when he means St. Louis, I go absolutely bonkers, lose total focus on the game, and scream. He makes me want to turn the sound off, turn the station, or turn my gun on a defenseless television. That's it my rant is now over. Thank you, that was therapeudic. ------------------ There can be only one...
Don't get me started on Summerall, he should have retired years ago. I'm a huge Packers fan, and luckily he doesn't do too many. However, I remember one last year when Levens was out with a broken leg, he kept referring to Jervey as Levens the entire game. This was 4-5 weeks after the injury, and they are different races. Kind of hard to mix up.
