Couldn't let this statement pass. Iverson's style of play is NOT conducive to team success, unless certain variables are added to the equation (ie: a legitimate frontcourt) , which were with the acquisitions of Tyrone Hill and Theo Ratliff. It's not much of a coincidence that the Sixers started winning when these two arrived. Tyrone Hill's absence is being overlooked by most when people discuss why the Sixers are struggling. I don't care if the consensus is that their struggles can be attributed to Iverson's injury, Tyrone Hill was a HUGE loss for them. He was the their best interior defender and rebounder, and I can only imagine how mad Larry Brown was when they traded Hill for oft-injured Matt Harpring to clear cap room. Speaking of Larry Brown, he recently implied his dislike of Iverson's style of play, which, almost irrefutably, makes your statement a fallacy. article here Here's the excerpt: "We had a great practice," Brown said. "We had everybody here but Allen, which is typical." "Well, we don't have anybody who'll pass it to a shooter. It hasn't happened." "Yeah, we had Timmy Thomas and Toni Kukoc," Brown said. "The only (small forward) who flourished was George (Lynch) because George was rebounding and defending. He wanted to shoot the ball, but he realized, 'Hell, I'll never get it, so I'm going to rebound and defend.' "Anybody we get there who wants to shoot the ball, they never get the ball. So we can have Michael Jordan out there (and) if he spotted up, I doubt he'd get the ball. So what does it matter?"
Mobley is injured, he has two sprained ankles. Right now it is very difficult for him to blow by defenders, so he is relying more on his fadeaways and three pointers(he is leading the team in 3pt%). I like that he is out there playing through the injuries and not cooling it on the bench while his team is losing 15 games in a row. He is still shooting above 40%, and is still playing good defense so he is not hurting the team. He just isn't helping them as much as he can when healthy. I would like him to sit out a couple of games, once Francis and Thomas get back, to rest his ankles and get back to 100%. Then people can see what he really brings to this team. He is also leading the team in minutes played. A guy with two bad wheels is out on the court more than anyone else on the team. That is all about heart and determination and a will to help his team win. Even if Cuttino were not as good as he is, I want 12 players like him on my team. Maybe if all of his teammates had his heart, we would not be approaching the longest losing streak in team history. I think San Antonio, Sacramento, and New Jersey would all love to start Cuttino.
Well if is hurt then he needs to sit his ( | ) on the bench until he gets well.... But the last time I checked his quick step has nothing to do with him playing smarter or passing the ball...
Dang, crispee you hit it on all points. I don't understand all of this hating on Cuttino. Sure he takes some questionable shots but at least he has the guts to take them. This guy can take anyone and I do mean anyone (Kobe included) to the rack anytime he wants. A lot of times I do hate it when he settles for the fadeaway but now that a zone can be played, defenses are geared to stop the drive. All cat has to do now is learn how to read these defenses and swing the ball twice and that man will have a wide open shot. When Steve gets back we will see a difference because teams wil pay when they double up the cat. It is gonna be hard to get out of this hole that the Rockets have dug but the first thing will be to get back to .500. I believe if they can do this by the all-star break then we could be ok. But that would take a 18-4 or a 17-5 record. We just need to take them one game at a time. We are only 8 games out of the last seed.
I know for one that I don't hate Cuttino at all. I really like the guy. But, in my opinion, he is expendable to this team. Steve Francis is the cornerstone of the backcourt. We have a complete weakness in the front court at the Center position. Cato is not going to develop at all over the next six years, from what I can see. Willis is way past his prime and does a decent job on the boards but can't make a layup. When Mo T gets back, he will add some scoring punch, but I think all of us would agree that he's never been known as a "banger" who will go in there and get rebounds. Nor is his defense one of his strong points. I think a Marc Jackson for Mobley trade would be a perfect fit for this team. We would then have three solid players at key positions - SF, PG, and C. Two guards are plentiful in the league, and we could probably get someone who is more willing to play a spot-up shooting role and less "dribble dribble" than Mobley. Plus, we already have Glen Rice who, given the minutes and if he can get reasonbly healthy, will just KILL teams from outside. I'm not saying Mobley is a bad player. I think he's got great upside and talent. I just think that filling in the Center position is very important right now, and I also think that Mobley's style doesn't fit the style this team needs to progress to, which is more disciplined, pass oriented ball, as opposed to one-on-one isolation.
So let me get this straight..... When Steve gets back Cuttino will not Jack up shots just because??? When Steve comes back Cuttino will play TEAM ball??? When Steve comes back Cuttino will learn how to read defenses?? When Steve comes back Cuttino will play smarter??? Who the HELL is Steve to Cuttino... His Daddy, Boyfriend... What.... that he can only do right when Steve comes back.. Because what you are saying is some lame stuff.... It does not take Steve for Cuttino to already know this... By the way I am not questioning his talent.... I am questioning his actions... I know Cuttino wants the limelight he has already stated that... But he is going about it the wrong way... No matter how quick Cuttino is or how talented he is.... HE CAN NOT BEAT ANY NBA TEAM BY HIMSELF..... This is a TEAM game not a 1 on 1 game....
Cat is an average starting two guard but he'd be an excellent 6th man. Cat does have tunnel vision which is all the more reason why he should be used as a 6th man to supply instant offense. As a 6th man you don't care if he goes iso on every play because you're looking for that boost with reserves on the floor. As a starter however, he's making the offense too stagnant because guys aren't getting touches, not getting looks, and they don't feel involved. Same thing with Moochie. When Moochie and Cat are on the floor, the other 3 players might as well go grab some pine.
Just a couple of cents: 1) Mobley's primary duty on this team is to score. It is not to play defense, it is not to share the ball, it is not to coordinate the team offense - it is to score. He put ball in hole. He make points. Yes, he take many shots to do it, but he make points. He is a shooting guard. Any responsibility aside from shooting lies with Steve, Mooch, Tierre, or some part of the frontcourt. His job is to shoot the damn ball, period. Of course we all wish his shooting % was a little higher, but it cannot be argued that he is not doing his job. If we had a shooting guard who spent all of his time passing, rebounding, or trying to run an offense - but who didn't shoot - then we would have reason to be upset (Shandon?)... 2) His role as a shooter will become more acceptable when Steve gets back and we aren't faced with the "Mooch-dribble/Cat-shoot-stupid-shot" conondrum. If memory serves, Steve doesn't consistently dribble the clock out; he either passes the rock or scores himself. I suspect that Cat trusts Steve more, and will not be so reluctant to pass it back to him - as opposed to passing it back to Moochie, who is likely to dribble the clock out. Rather than pass it back to Moochie, Cuttino appears to be more confident with his own shot. Can you really blame him? Everything will change when Steve gets back.
There we go. treeman posting the "dumbass" thread and offering the final conciliation. That's all I ask to discuss the truth. Mobley is a "dumbass." He is hard headed, yet admits his mistakes. He beats his head against the wall. He fights for strong side position when the PG wants to do something else. He makes up his mind to shoot or pass before the play develops. He often passively passes if he can't find the score or cute pass. He probably doesn't know what anyone else's role is on the court, although Kenny seems to be one of the few who does. But Mobley is our stud. He is one of our keys. Plus, I do not subscribe to the philosophy that Francis passes only to Mobley and vice versa. I don't get that one. Mobley is usually far weakside from Francis and vice versa when the other is the playmaker. With our talent, we have to threaten Francis elevating against PGs, and we have to threaten Mobley blowing by SGs. They both threaten major damage if defenses leave them to guard the other. That said, please give us a stud power forward as well. And we need both Francis and Mobley to 100% insist as leaders that this team push the transition to score or at least set up in less time. imo, Mobley is frustrated as hell. Compounding that with his need to learn when not much other talent is out on the court,,,makes us all sick. One thing that is an absolute truth, Mobley has not complained at all about other's play. At least he is recognizing his need to learn. And that is to the benefit of us all, imo. <font size="1">wow...treeman with the early death. Zac with the kill.</font>
Knew it wouldn't take long... at all. crispee: Nothing "final" about it. I think this debate will rage for some time under one thread heading or another... I didn't mean that they pass to each other exclusively (not what I said either), I simply meant that Cuttino probably feels more "alone" on the court without Steve there. Assuming a relay to the PG - given the option of passing to Mooch or making the play yourself, what do you choose if you're Cuttino? You take the shot yourself. Now replace Mooch with Steve, and what do you get? A totally different mental equation for Cuttino. More ball movement when Steve is point, because Cat (and everyone else, I suspect) trusts him more than they do Moochie. That's all I meant. I agree with the rest of your post.
sorry, I didn't mean to sound like I was putting words in your mouth about Francis/Mobley passing to each other. That was a comment of mine about a general BBS philosophy, of which I do not subscribe. Your post was very fair to this discussion. I agree with everything you said, even though you were being overly nice to Cuttino. My main attempt was to be fair back. I'm impressed with your attempt to steady your thread back onto conciliatory discussion. cheers!
Not Sacremento. I happen to be a big fan of Doug Christie. I think he's a good complimentary player. Kittles was good before he was injured, and Smith was a dream teamer.
Irreleveant. With zone defenses, I don't think it matters. That being said, I think there are definitely at least 10 guards/forwards who can beat Cuttino, one-on-one (injuries excluded, although that is part of the game). Finley Kobe Ray Allen Iverson Miller Francis Abdur-rahim McGrady Hill Rider Christie Marbury Carter Nowitzki Magette Mercer Richardson Jamison Hughes Rashard Lewis
I don't want to trade Cat, I think the system makes him more limited than his abilities, just like Steve. Why when Rudy rest Cat, he moves Steve to 2 guard? Isn't this a detriment to his learning to play point? What kind of player would Steve be with some movement? What kind of penetrator would he be if the defensive players opposite were occupied? He could avg 8,9 asst, but since he has to break the d down and hope these guys hit a 23ft shots, at the same time defenses can just chill and look at him without guarding their man makes it tough. I bet you Cat's fg% would be higher if he played in Nelson,Aldemans, or karls system. Since everything he does comes one on one, his fg% sux. I have his piss poor numbers to blame more on the system than him.
Damn, tpl, I said speed trumps height, imo, in a relative sense. (Of course, I'm not saying compare a guard to a center...I'm saying position for position). Also, I said one-on-one play is a measure of talent. Talent is always conducive to team success. I also said Mobley, currently, has no clue how to use his talent towards team success. What are you arguing about? If you want to say that height trumps speed, fine. That is my only point about Iverson, sheesh. gr8-1, ditto on my comments to tpl. I mentioned one-on-one skills to say the Mobley is a stud talent that is conducive to bball success, otherwise defenses wouldn't gear to stop him. He is a dumbass in using the talent right now. But to say his talent is irrelevant is wrong. One on one talent based on sheer speed is very relevant to basketball. man, do you really believe everyone on your list can beat Mobes? You do know it is a make-it-take-it game. This is an argument we always liked to have in the 80's about Magic, Bird, Jordan and Barkley in their prime. Who would win. imo, Bird's chance of winning were slim. Talent to get you to the rim trumps talent to get off shots in make-it-take-it.
I would say the Rockets, as a whole, have a low basketball IQ. I wouldn't call Mobes a dumbass, in fact, I think he's one of our smartest players. And yes, he does have talent. But, just not enough to carry this team. I'm not sure anyone has that kind of talent.
gr8-1, Bingo, Low basketball IQ. EXACTLY !! However, I don't think it takes one Superstar to make it work. I think if the overall team understands teamwork you can win with less talent. Look at Orlando 2 years ago, a prime example of team ball winning some games. The problem with the Rockets is that some of their players "Feel" they have to take over games, and in reality would be better served by playing as a team. This team, while injured, still has enough talent to win some games, but only if they play as a team, not as one on one playground players. Crispee, Speed is a good thing, but height is just as good. I think, and I have said this many times before, that you always take the taller "LIKE SKILLED" player. Example, would you take Odom or Mobley? (Discounting the mar1juana problem?) The Rockets have a good quick team, but they get killed by other teams guards, because neither Mobley or Francis is a good defender, and both are too short to handle the Bryant sized 2 guards. DaDakota
