I saw in the Chronicle a couple of days ago an article on Jabaar wanting to coach so badly that he was coaching some no-name High school team. If the Rockets are going to pick Ming, I think the Rockets should hire him as an assistant coach. He could teach Ming a lot of moves and a lot of other stuff since his body-type is similar to that of Ming's, and Ming could develope into a dominant force in the league under Jabaar's guidence (think: A 7'6 guy doing sky hooks ).
Hey, at least we know that Odom will want to be here given all the sweet, sweet weed that will be flowin' from Kareem's crib.
No disrespect, but their track record is not very good developing big guys. They wanted Cato, have they developed him? They wanted Collier, have the developed him? They wanted Langhi (hes 6'11), have they developed him? They drafted Griffin, and just like Clutch wrote in his season recap - Rockets did a poor job developing him. It seems all they require from big guys is to shoot 3's and clear out the middle, so everybody else can run ISO's. You can argue that these players do not have the skills to do anything else, but I disagree. I have seen Cato shoot a fall-away base line jumper (like Hakeem), nothing but net. If he can shoot it once, why not keep shooting it in games (isn't that considered development). I saw Griffin shot the same shoot in the summer league, hitting nothing but net (I could of sworn he was Hakeem). Has he had that play called again. No. The season was a joke at then end, why not have these guys working on their post moves? Only person you can say was dominate was Hakeem. But did the Rockets have anything to do with that? I think Hakeem was a FREAK of SKILL, and he developed himself. Did Phil Jackson develop Jordan? I still remember Hakeem venting last season, that Rudy did not know how to utilize a big man (or something in those lines). Was Hakeem right? It appears the same thing Hakeem was complaining about, happen this year with our big guys. Rudy has relied 100% on ISO's to win games, with no inside-out movement. My problem is with the coaching. If we are stuck with Rudy, then fine, lets clean house on the assistants. This team needs some fresh blood coaching & developing are players. Look at Dallas, they hired all those coaches and everybody started benefiting.
Um...Olajuwon, Sampson, Malone, Hayes...ring any bells? First, you cannot develop players who do not have talent (Collier/Langhi) or guys with no interest in really working (Cato). Second, you cannot judge a 19-year-old who wasn't even supposed to see significant minutes on his first year. Most players at that age take AT LEAST 3 full seasons before they come into their own. If you want recent proof, just look at Kenny Thomas. Cato and Griffin looking like Hakeem??? Griffin could do that when he was facing summer league talent. He wasn't being guarded by guys who could out-muscle him or even guys his height. They guy has very little footwork at all as of now. I guess even Hakeem must be wrong then given that he credited guys like Malone, Dawson and Larry Smith for his development. Hakeem was that rare mixture of competitive drive, raw talent and creativity. But, his footwork when he entered the league was not great and he had no jump hook or fadeaway. He learned those. No. Tex Winter and Dean Smith did that. I know you don't like the coaching and that's fine. But you are reaching big time on the big man analysis. The Rockets have one of the best track records in the NBA for developing big man skill. Three of the four I mentioned above are ranked in the NBA top 50 and Sampson would have had he not had his career cut short by injury.
Originally posted by Jeff Um...Olajuwon, Sampson, Malone, Hayes...ring any bells? No offense Jeff but I'm pretty sure at least three of those guys were the #1 pick overall in their respective draft. Alvin Brooks could have developed those guys. It's like saying Brian Hill developed Shaq, Bob Hill developed Robinson, and Greg Popovich developed Tim Duncan.
Okay Jeff I was being a little sarcastic, but I meant players in this decade. If our guys did teach Hakeem most of his moves, why can't I think of any other player with similar moves (this decade)? Who else have they trained like Hakeem? Its pretty sad if they were the reason for his training, because they are not teaching it now. Yes Collier & Langhi are useless, but I have seen Cato shoot 15ft jump shots hitting nothing but net (the few he has taken) so why not let him shoot more. Maybe he would get into a rythm. KT has improved this year with his ISO skills. But nobody is using the inside-out ball movement that Hakeem (Barkley) were famous for. IF THEY ARE TRAINING OUR GUYS IN POST MOVES, don't they want them to imply them during games. Especially after we already missed the playoffs. I guess Griffin is the sadest part. Just like Clutch noted on his recap, they just did not do a very good job with Griffin. Even if he is 19, and was not suppose to get the minutes. He was getting over 20 minutes a game for the 2nd half of the season and was BY FAR OUR BEST DEFENDER OF THE YEAR!!!. Were these great post developers working on his 3 point shot? We already lost the season, so why not give our BIG GUYS a couple of post plays a game. They will never learn, without trying. I think we need to clean house with the assistants, and bring in some fresh blood. Healthy bodies and new talent will help, but we have one of the worse play books in the league.
What, in the 2000's? We haven't had any big men long term in the 2000's. KT got his scoop hook (semi jump hook) here. Mo Taylor was learning a jump hook and implementing it before he was hurt. Othella Harrington got his jump hook here and even Kevin Willis admitted that his jump hook was improved by this staff. But, honestly, it is TOTALLY unfair to compare Hakeem with any of these guys. It is like a Yugo taking lessons from a Ferrari. Hakeem had the raw abilities to back up the learning process. Cato is a HORRIBLE offensive player. Outside of dunks going to the basket, the guy is a terrible offensive player. The problem, however, doesn't lie with his skills. The guy has raw talent. The problem is that he spends most of his shootarounds and practices shooting THREE POINTERS! They have tried to work on his offensive skills, but they guy is just not dedicated to getting better. Not much you can do about that. KT used the ISO for a very specific reason: he is not strong or big enough to muscle power forwards out of the box but he IS quick enough to go around them. You can either back him up where he is mostly ineffective or you can put him in a position to succeed. That IS development. When he came to the Rockets, he had great post skills (still does) but the team knew he wouldn't be able to use all of those moves against bigger power forwards. They would either out-muscle him or let him go by and recover from behind because they almost always have a height advantage. The solution was to use his quickness and footwork to go AROUND bigger men which he did very effectively this season. He used it not just to shoot over or drive around but also to go across the lane for "scoop" hooks. He (and the staff) made the most out of his talents by avoiding his weaknesses. I agree that he could have been used better but you have to remember that EG hit a HUGE rookie wall not long after the all star break and never really recovered. I remember seeing him post up on a few occassions and almost always coming up short on his shot because he doesn't have enough arc on them and he doesn't have good enough post moves to avoid the defender. This is primarily because he didn't need those skills on the high school and college level. He was almost always bigger than his defender. It is an adjustment he will have to make in the pros. In addition, he HAS to get stronger. He was a good defender but NOT one-on-one. He was a great weak-side shot blocker but you'd never put him in there against a bigger power forward and expect him to defend on the low block. Guys were manhandling him. It will take him a couple of seasons to develop the kind of muscle and skill needed to survive in the post. It is just hard for me to imagine doing much more with a 19-year-old who only had one year of college experience let alone in the pros. Now, if he is 22 and still shooting jumpers and looking bad in the post, fine. Then, I'll agree with you. And yet, just one season ago, we had the best record ever by a team to miss the playoffs despite injuries to our main center (Hakeem) and an extremely young pool of talent. I know people are frustrated, but we won't know anything until Taylor returns, Francis is 100%, EG has a full summer of working out and we have new players via the draft. Until then, the rest might be a bit premature.
I agree with you. I look at Othella and on this team his low post game is superior to all our big men. Some of it had to do with him going against Barkley,Hakeem and Willis and some of it had to do with him working with the coaches. I just wish , even though Griffin wasn't strong enough to post up all the time, they would have kept him inside 12-15ft of the basket. The only was to learn how to post up is to work on it and practice and gain confidence in something, not by running out to the 3pt line and shooting 3's. If Eddie can develop the same jump hook as say Othella, with his long arms it would be impossible to stop him on the low blocks. Hell, look how long and successful Willis has been with basically one back to the basket move, the jump hook. I stated earlier that Kareem working with ming and also bringing back Willis would really help him a lot. Alreadt with his ability to put the ball on the floor or face up for the 15ft jumper, if he adds the sky hook and jump hook, he would be unstoppable.
Okay Jeff I get the point. Regarding Griffin's rookie wall, was that entirely his fault? He was TOTALLY HOT as the starting PF (especially on defense), and when KT started whinning about returning as the starter, Griffin then seemed to hit the rookie wall (with less minutes, and participation in offense). They tried him at SF, and it just did not work. They tried KT at SF, and it just did not work. Those two do not work well together on the floor. I am not saying who is to blame, they just do not have any chemistry. If are coaches are suppose to be working with our players after hours, when are they suppose to start doing it in real life? The last month of play, they could of given Griffin 10 shots a night (in the post) to help judge how he was responding to the training. JEFF< SINCE YOU ARE CREAMING ME TONIGHT!!! I have not heard your opinion on draft night. Do you think its best to take a gamble on Ming (and china), Make blockbuster trade for Odom, #8 & #12, Golden States #3 & ?, or McDyess #5 & ?. (of course without touching are core players Francis, Cat & Griffin). Thanks
leebigez: How is it you and I are agreeing so much lately? barbourdg: Nah, not creaming, just posing my side. You make good points and I certainly don't have the answers. I'm just a little more patient. As for the draft, it's a tough call. I have not seen enough of Yao as a player to say, for certain, yeah, he's a #1. But, there are enough GM's and scouts salivating over the guy all around the league to make me think he is probably worth it. I, personally, am not sold on trading the pick. Getting a #1 and EVERYTHING that comes with it (the press, the spotlight, the options) is just to valuable to trade for nothing. Outside of something just ridiculous, I don't see the Rockets dealing it and I can't blame them. I am not enamoured of McDyess. I worry about his injuries and think that it still doesn't address our greatest needs (SF and Center). Golden State doesn't really have anything I want excluding Jamison, but I have problems there because this is not a center-rich draft (which one is lately?) and getting Jamison and still having #3 means what? Who do you take? There isn't a center that will be worth #3, so do you draft a small forward who will play behind Jamison for the next 10 years? Plus, you still have #15 and that might mean ANOTHER small forward. Just awkward. The Odom deal is a different situation because, given his problems and the Clippers seeming determination to unload him, I think he could be had without giving up the #1. Would you do #15 plus Kenny Thomas for Odom? If the draft netted us Yao and Odom, that might be ok with me. Given his baggage, could you get Odom and the #12 for #15 and KT? Let's take it a step further: How about sending Rice, KT and the #15 for Odom, Piatkowski and the #8? Piatkowski is off the books after next season and the #8 gets you additional talent - maybe a foreign player to back up Odom (Tski?) for example. That deal would work with the cap and it clears some playing space for the Clippers who have Maggette, Richardson, Miles among others. It also unloads Odom, which they seem hell-bent on doing this offseason. To me, the most interesting deals are with the #15, not the #1. IMO, the #1 is decided, but there is much more to be done with the rest of the draft and players this offseason.
Jeff- The entire season i tried to get you to see the light, but you wouldn't, after my constant talk and analysis , you actually saw me as a man who knows his s**t. So thats why we agree alot lately. really at the end of the season we were agreeing a lot. I'm not a guru of basketball or something like that, I'm just a man who played basketball on the college level and has and always be a basketball junkie. I've stated before that i have a room with 2 big screen tv's ,direct tv ultimate tv on booth with picture in a picture. During the season, i go to this room, split the screens and watch 4 games at he same time all the while I'm taping the rockets in the other room. I know a little about basketball especially rockets basketball. The first few lines I was just joking. I like you just think if Ming keeps progressing like he has, and with the right coaching at his height, there would be no one in the league that could actually contest his shot. People look at guys like big Z in Cleveland, but when he's healthy, which has been little, he is a very good center. He's big,strong and has a array of low post moves. Ming is a little bigger, probably a little stronger and much more atheletic than Z. The jump hook alone in his assortment of moves would be unguardable. I just want whats best for the Rockets and the return to the finals. I'm not really with the KG 1 and done, I want a team that could be a force for yrs and I think the development of Ming and Grffin are vital for our successs. That's why I wish when we package KT and that 15th, hopefully we can throw in Collier and then resign Willis. Ming and Griffin going against Willis everyday and his work ethic can only help them mature. I know it didn't work for Cato, but I think Griffin and Ming want to learn.
Leebigeze, I'm totally with you on this one. A recurrent theme of yours seems to me to be that we need a more consistent inside game. I sure agree with this and is why I say take a chance on Yao for all the reasons you say. I also say, Jabbar or someone needs to teach him the skyhook. Virtually everyone agrees;Yao has a good touch, has good fundamentals and a good work ethic. He should be able to learn it. WRT to Rudy, who you've bashed a little too much for me. If Yao can at least have a go to shot, the hook? which necessitates double teaming and he supposedly has good passing instincts, don't you think that would enable Rudy to go back to a type of game he is more comfortable with from the Hakeem days. Will Rudy's old tricks suffice with a center with good hands, a go to shot and the ability to pass out?
Because a billion new Rockets fans is not a bad thing unless you run a Rocket bulletin board. Had to laugh at that one.
I think the Rockets havn't done a very good job at all with Griffin. Although he's only 19, he wont get any better if he's just standing at the tthree point line. I think him being 19 shouldn't be an excuse for not giving him inside looks, or running other plays for him besides pick and rolls and spotup threes. Look at Tony Parker, the Spurs gave him the responsibility of PG, prolly harder then PF, and he responded, despite being 19. I hope the Rockets don't just make Ming a perimeter player. Thats why I think Jabaar would help him with his low post skills, to give us a legitimate inside scorer.
