Except that many already consider the Israelis morally wrong so this isn't exactly a thought experiment. To take on though what you might be getting at is if the US and other World Powers truly thought of Israel as an evil state. I suspect that would change a lot of things as you would see at the minimum heavy sanctions on Israel and the US arming and advising the Palestinians.
So really you don't think Israel is morally superior to the Palestinians? You've spent 30+ pages arguing and defending Israel and it's actions but you don't think. Frankly that is more of a might makes right argument since the basis for you to defend Israel is only that they are more powerful. OK I've played your thought experiment now let me ask you this. If the tables were turned and the Palestinians had greater military and economic might would you be arguing that the Israelis should just accept defeat and give to the Palestinians?
You failed the exercise. Again, the only thing we are doing in this exercise is labeling the groups not changing alliances. If Israel is immoral, Israel's allies are immoral as well thus the new label wouldn't change anything at all. Like you said, many consider the Israelis morally wrong, the point is, so what? What difference does it make? The obvious answer is that it doesn't make any difference at all, which is why it's irrelevant, what matters are the facts surrounding the situation which is why there's no point in getting bogged down with trying to figure out who is morally right or wrong. What if both are morally wrong? What if neither are?
where? I was only responding to the post you quoted and he definitely didn't talk about justifying any actions there.
As to your thought exercise, absolutely. And it's not because "might makes right" it's because if you've lost and your actions only harm your people, you should change your actions. If the Palestinians had a greater military than the Israelis and they managed to win and conquer the land, assuming there were any Israelis left alive, I would think it would be in their best interest to leave or find a way to work with the Palestinians rather than attempt to lash out at them every chance they got and suffer more and more casualties as a result. Really it's just about being smart and caring about your own people....not something Palestinians have been particularly good at.
As soon as anyone talks about which side is morally right, I know that person is completely biased. Neither side holds moral high ground here. Both have acted in a disgusting uncivilized way. Whether or not Hamas has used human shields, Israel is clearly not doing all it can to minimize civilian casualties. There response has been beyond severe - it has been a statement of punishment. Israel is targeting former Hamas fighters who are no longer even in Hamas but part of Gaza security. In one instance, a former Hamas fighter (not leader mind you) went to have dinner with a friends family. The IDF launched a missile attack killing everyone - women, children, men - to get this one person. Israel is playing PR lip service. There is no justification to the amount of civilian death in Gaz Strip right now. The rockets are not landing - Iron dome has protected Israel. That doesn't mean Israel can't fight back or take action. But it doesn't have to rush to take actions that leave more than 50% civilian casualties. What's the rush? Wny not proceed more cautiously. Instead of freverently and callously. Telling residents that 40% of all Gaza must be evacuated and bombing other parts isn't acceptable. They are literally treating the Palestinians like cattle and don't care if a few cows die in the process. It's a horrible thing to witness by a first world country.
Not sure if the pro zionists on here have seen this. What is your response? All this murdering for a lie. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/hamas-didnt-kidnap-the-israeli-teens-after-all.html Hamas didn't kidnap the Israeli teens after all. Israel is killing Palestinian civilians with the excuse of attacking Hamas without any proof that Hamas killed those teens. Horrible. Terrorism is too weak of a term to describe what Israel is doing to Gaza.
You really believe that garbage. A "lone cell"!? Anything Hamas can do to give its cause legitimacy. You would know a thing or two about shameful behavior and political games.
Did you not read the article? Israeli officials said this. No one is making it up. Hamas is not creating this controversy... Of course you will deny what you don't want to believe, even when proven with sources. Typical zionist behavior.
Being anti Zionist does not equal anti semitism. Neither does being anti Israel. Anyway. More children killed in new attack on a Palestinian home. I guess bobby and trollonvar are smiling right now. http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsCon...aeli-strike-before-truce-kills--Palestin.aspx
It is interesting how an organization like Hamas which can't pay its civil servants at all has the resources needed to construct what appears to be quite the elaborate tunnel network that was designed almost entirely for terrorist attacks.
The US didn't go into Japan, take over the land, put the Japanese into a corner, limit their freedom and once they go crazy, nuke them. How do you think the whole world would react if Israel wipe out all the Arabs in "their" land? Israel would collapse not just from military reaction but from economical reaction. Their government probably would collapse just from their own citizen reactions. They aren't morally insane or practically mindless enough to go that far. Yes, it's the same both way. Squeezing them into a corner, limiting their future, and anytime they throw a rock, you throw a bomb is hardly concession or a show of great willingness and intention for peace between them. BTW, if you want to be more effective at monitoring and controlling a group of people, you put them into a corner. The Israel leader thinking that these military action will solve their problem (peace) IS a lost cause as we have witnessed for the last few decades and why even their most reliable ally (the US) called for a two states solution. Even if they completely destroy Hamas, there will be enough hate in that region to spur up some other group to take Hamas place.
Those tunnels are also used to smuggle in food, construction materials, medicine, and other items : see Wikipedia summary Another group of oppressed people built tunnels as part of their resistance...
I wasn't talking about Japan, I was talking about the native population of America....and they were actually a native population and not just a conquering people in a long list of conquering people. As to the Palestinians, Israel didn't squeeze them into a corner, they squeezed themselves into a corner with their actions. Taking responsibility for themselves would be a nice first step if the Palestinians ever want to make something of themselves. Also, if every time you threw a rock someone else threw back a bomb, you'd think at some point the person with a rock would realize that they should probably stop throwing rocks.
Ah, so I guess the tunnels that were constructed with their exits under kibbutzs and schools were built so that the Palestinians could just go out and obtain crops and educational supplies.
It's amazing how you keep ignoring the fact that the Palestinians don't have the resources to take responsibility for themselves. That's part of the problem. If they had a sustainable land in which they could be responsible for themselves that might be a huge start into making matters better. But keep pretending that resources aren't a problem in Gaza and they are free to move and leave whenever they want. With such superior philosophical and reasoning skills that you talk about all the time, one would think you would have a better grasp on the situation than you have shown.
