This is dangerous thinking. How many MacDonald All HS Americans are not drafted in the first round? Or vice versa, how many American first round draft pick were not MacDonald All HS Americans? There is no doubt that some BBers peak in high school. It is a point that can not be argued (but go ahead ). I have even read on this very board that the Perkins kid from Beaumont peaked in his freaking sophmore year in HS of all things. BTW, Elton Brand is the only 20/10 player mentioned on this board who the Rockets imo would seriously consider trading the Yoa pick for.
Can someone tell me why Caron Butler would not be a perfect fit on this team? I see nothing that tells me Ming is worth the hassle/extra money - other than the tall factor.
Caron would be a good fit, but finding a small forward to fit with this team is so much easier then finding a center for this team. There are a plethora of small forwards in the NBA. I personally think Ron Artest would be a perfect fit. Great defense, good shooter, a player that knows his role, relatively cheap, and we wouldn't have to give up the #1 pick to get him.
We'd have talent at 4 positions and a Cato in full bloom - trade GS for fortson we'd get another big body with fairly solid numbers 1 for 3 - draft day is so far away...
<i>Will Yoa prove his worth as a number one pick? I do not know. The touchstone that Yoa will be measured against is whether he will be a 20/10/5 man. If he is not putting up those numbers by his mid 20s, the Rocks will have "blown" the pick. I am not saying that Yoa will be a bust if he missed those numbers, just that he has not proven his worth as the first pick.</i> If your expectation for the first pick is is a 20/10/5 man, then you're guarenteed to be disappointed. Nobody in the NBA averaged those numbers last year. Duncan was the closest, but he averaged just under 3 blocks per game. Even if you disregard the blocks, there's just not many 20/10 guys and we're not going to be able to get one of those guys. Last year the only 20/10 guys were Shaq,Duncan and Garnett. If you expand that to guys that were close, then you add Brand (18.2/11.6), J. O'Neal (19.0,10.5), Nowitzki (23.4,9.9), Marion (19.1,9.9), Abdur-Rahim (21.2,9) and A. Walker (22.1,8.8). We're not going to get one of those guys in a trade and there's no 20/10 guys in the draft. I've said in several threads that we should keep the pick unless we get an overwhelming deal that we can't turn down. I still believe that, but I don't believe that we will get an offer like that. Sounds like you have a similar view of the #1 pick, I just think that you need to reset your expectations on what you expect Yao.
I would love to have CB, but that still doesn't solve our frontcourt problems. I have said this before and I'll say it again. You don't get this opportunity very often. We need to take advantage of it while we can. We can always go out later and find a SF to help us. It is a lot easier to find a SF than an impact big man. Look at all the good SF's in the draft. Now look at how many good big men there are in the draft. If we don't use the #1 pick on Ming our #1 priority should be getting an impact or potential impact big man.
<i>Rarely are players listed shorter than they are Jabbar was 7' give or take</i> Do you believe that Garnett is only 6' 11", like he's listed by the NBA? http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kevin_garnett/index.html?nav=page <i>above 7' 2" the player just can't handle the pounding of season as a full time starter..</i> So, how do you explain Shawn Bradley not having major injuries? How did Mark Eaton manage to play 10 years, be 1st team NBA all defense 4 times, NBA Defensive player of the year twice and make the 1989 All-Star team? Even Ric Smits played 12 years in the NBA. Not bad for some guys that couldn't take the pounding. http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kevin_garnett/index.html?nav=page
KG asked to have his listed height kept under 7 feet cause he thought people would think of him as a center instead of a small forward or PF-something like that- I believe he is listed at 7 1" now--anyways the other 99% of the league are listed at or above their height. Eaton, Smits would they be considered #1 picks today- I can picture them lumbering down the court Smits retired because of the foot problems that plagued his entire career-Bradley hardly plays when he does well its not pretty. We trade with GS for Fortson pick up C -BU at 3- wheel and deal-take Stoudamier - I believe Kato will improve and become a usable starter - that is a young talented team.
<i>KG asked to have his listed height kept under 7 feet cause he thought people would think of him as a center instead of a small forward or PF-something like that- I believe he is listed at 7 1" now--anyways the other 99% of the league are listed at or above their height</i> Yes, and Jabbar, like Garnett was part of that 1%. Also, Garnett is still listed at 6'11", that link is to the official NBA site. <i> Eaton, Smits would they be considered #1 picks today</i> Ok, so now you're back to only talking about #1 overall picks? Are you making a generalized statement about all players above 7'2"? <i>above 7' 2" the player just can't handle the pounding of season as a full time starter.</i> If so, then it has nothing to do with their skill level, only their health. If that's the case then Eaton, Bradley and Smits contradict your statement. They are all above 7'2" and "handled the pounding" for many years. or are you only talking about guys above 7'2" AND selected #1 overall? If that's the case, then you might as well call him by name: Ralph Sampson. He's the only guy that big ever taken #1 overall. Of course, it's pretty ridiculous to generalize about all players over a certain height based on the history of only a single player. Especially, when that player's injury wasn't stress related. So, which is it? You've got two potential arguments here, both are equally weak. Pick one and stick to it.
Some guys peak in high school. Of course, they're working 9 to 5 after high school or maybe college. If NBA players peak in high school, why does most every player's numbers go up from their rookie year. According to your theory, a player should get worse every year. Hey, we better get rid of Eddie Griffin. I mean, if he's not going to improve, we should move on.
Congrats i'm sure KG is listed at 6 11 I won't check because its obviously been done several times. There is no need to hash through my posts word by word they are not that important. My main thought is you want a productive reliable #1 - Ming like most ultra tall players will most likely wear out faster than than the 7' 2" and under crowd. This is just one problem along with: he is a SF, they won't let our dr. check him out, the sharks are making ridiculous salary and placement demands, Rudy and CD can't talk to him on the phone or watch him play, he has played against weak competion all his life, the list goes on and on... he is a good player -I think the Rockets should look elsewhere. AElliott i'm generalizing players over 7' 2" to question Mings durability. Jabbar is one amazing exception if he really is over my personal height limit How do Eaten(the best of 3) Smits(constant foot injuries) and Bradley(15 mpg) contradict my point. Sampson 5 years injured. Lets hear your points for Ming instead of carping on height- there are other +/- Weak? settle down thugg
I'm leaning towards not drafting Yao, but it wouldn't break my heart if we did. I trust Rudy and CD's talent evaluation skills. It's just, well, Yao is an anomaly and their are alot of questions and potential hurdles. I think there are too many question marks to say Yao is a slam dunk. But, Rudy and CD know how to evaluate talent better than any of us on this board. I trust them, still.
I can't recall a single player over 7'2" or so that was ever built like Ming. Most of them were skinny beanpoles, Ming is near 300lbs. Comparisons to beanpoles of the past are fradulent, because Ming does not have a similar body type.
Until you Ming haters come up with something better than; He wont be any good he's to tall, I'll side with the people who have been scouting him for 4 years. It's pretty sad when the best reason you have for not wanting to draft him is, he's to tall. Oh now I guess your going to say; The Chinese gov is going to screw us. Well read this. http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/sports/bk/bkn/1443330 So now what are you giong to find wrong with him? Let me guess, his feet are to small.
<I> My main thought is you want a productive reliable #1 - Ming like most ultra tall players will most likely wear out faster than than the 7' 2" and under crowd. </i> Another generalization with no facts to back it up. What guys over 7'2" wore out? Sampson had a career ending knee injury that wasn't stress related. How is that any different than a Clark Kellog, blowing out a knee? Or LePhonso Ellis? The 7'2" and over crowd includes Eaton, Smits and Bradley, that's why they contradict your point. You are claiming that guys that big can't take the pounding, well guess what? These guys did and they played for 10+ years in the case of Eaton and Smits. Smits did have foot problems, but so do guys under 7', that doesn't mean that every player his size will have the same problems. Give me this list of guys that "wore out". Sampson got hurt, he didn't wear out. Muresan, Nevitt and Bol, just didn't have any skills. You can't just make a blanket generalization about a player just because be has some characteristic similar to one other player. How ridiculous would it be if I said that Jay Williams was going to be a bust because Duke guards never play well in the NBA (Dawkins, Hurley, Avery, Langdon)? Pretty Silly, huh? <i> This is just one problem along with: he is a SF, they won't let our dr. check him out, the sharks are making ridiculous salary and placement demands, Rudy and CD can't talk to him on the phone or watch him play, he has played against weak competion all his life, the list goes on and on... </i> He's not a SF, never has been, never will be. He's been a center his whole life, he played center in the Olympics, he'll play center in the World Championships in August and he'll play center for us if we draft him. As far as the Chinese demands, we don't know what they are. Leave that to the Rockets. If the demands are as ridiculous as some of these rumors that have been reported, then they won't draft him. Most of the crazy demands that have been printed are not allowed by the Collective Bargaining Agreement, so obviously they won't even be negotiated. The Rockets will negotiate with the Chinese and if they work things out, then that's taken care of. <i> Lets hear your points for Ming instead of carping on height- there are other +/- Weak? </i> My thought on Ming are in every other Ming thread on this board. He fills more of our holes than any other player/players that we could draft. Here's why: - Shooting. He can flat out shoot. Nobody argues that point. He's got range out to the NBA 3, but realistically he's money from 15 to 18 feet. He's shown some postup moves, but currently doesn't have the strength to get the postion down low that you need to use them. We always say that the Rockets need a post up player, but really what we need is that we need a consistent high percentage scorer. Well, if the knock on Yao is that he can't post up, then his jumper must be great. The guy shot 63.9% from the floor at the Sydney Olympics and that was good international competion. So, if he's just floating outside as everybody claims, then he's shooting an incredible percentage from out there. Bottom line, even when he's played against good competion, he's stil shot a high percentage. So, either he is getting inside or he's great on the jumper. That's exactly what the Rockets need. We are a terrible shooting team. If we have a guy that is going to shoot a high percentage, then it doesn't really matter if he's posting up or not. If you don't play him he will hit the shot, if you do play him, then Francis and Mobley have room to operate. Look at what Sacramento did to be effective against LA. Their big guys hit outside shots and forced Shaq to come out to play them. Once he vacated the lane, Bibby was able to penetrate and either score or set up other for easy baskets. So, if we take Yao, centers will have to come out and play him and open up the middle for Francis and Mobley. It will force teams to stop playing that sagging semi-zone that everybody used against the Rockets last year. - Passing - All the scouts say the guy is a great passer. Combine that with him playing up high and that opens up some great possibilities. Currenty our big guys don't pass the ball very well. A big man that could pass, would help get some easy buckets for Griffin & the guards. Maybe even throw some outlet passes if we every decide that we're actually going to run a fast break. - Defense. The guy will block shots. If for no reason other than his height. He was the second leading shot blocker at the Sydney Olympics, just a fraction behind Mourning. We gave up one of the highest opponent fg% in the league last year. We have to improve our defense. Unfortunately, our guards don't play good defense and most likely never will. A tandem of Griffin and Yao has the potential to cover many of our perimeter defensive deficiancies. If Yao becomes a superstar, then of course, this is the right thing to do. But, if he's eventually only a good center, then he still fixes alot of our problems. That's why I don't like the idea of a trade for Odom. He duplicates alot of our strengths and doesn't compensate for that many of our weaknesses. With Odom, we're still a terrible defensive team, we're stil a poor outside shooting team and I believe that opponents will still be effective against us by simply packing it in and clogging the middle and forcing us to shoot over the top. <i> settle down thugg </i> Cool,I always wanted to be a thug. Now if I can just make it to gansta.
great job aelliott, we should just cut and paste your post in every other Ming-hatin thread. I dont think anyone could have put it better. So you wanna be a gangsta huh? Not too safe around me, I just ran over loads of gangstas in GTA3 last nite.
Just go down to the mall and get your custom replica Rockets YaoElliot jersey - that or a Christie jersey- and everyone will know you got BBS game
My theory is not that BBers always peak in HS. My theory is that every athlete peaks at some point, be it in HS, college, or pros. The MacDonald's HS All American team has a bunch of players each year who had sensational senior years in HS, that they will never be able replicate in colleges or the pros (if they get there). Similarly, the first round of the NBA draft has players who had a great year in college and/or a great tourney and who will eventually struggle to make their mark in the NBA. WRT Ming Yoa, we can not assume that he will get better. It is likely that he will though. But will he get better enough to worth the first pick in the draft. I do not know. BTW, it was very unlikely that the Rockets would win the lottery. Get my drift.
