Let's be honest people if Ming wasn't 7-5 would we really consider him to have the skills of a number 1 draft choice. His upper body strength is not that good and even Ming said he doesn't like lifing weights. I believe their are several players out there with number 1 draft choice abilities, or trade the number 1 for a player or players that could really help us now. Ming will not be productive for several years if ever. Now if you want Ming just because he is tall that makes no sense to me. 7-5 does not make anyone a great player and i would think that most of the people going gaga over himhave not even seen him play. Since this is a sounding board lets try not to let our emotions take over for common sense. I want the Rockets to get better not have to develope a player that China may or may not let us keep.
Without all the political nonsense-lets just say Ming is coming out of UNLV- 7' 5" just seems to be past the threshhold of durability. I can't think of anyone over 7'2" who has held up over the long term. If he was a ligitimate center maybe, but he is another ultra tall SF who will have to run way too much. I know the Rockets would play him at 5 but he would still move around instead of posting up like a traditional center.
Mark Eaton, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Ralph Sampson, Sean Bradley, Manute Bol. All of them, held up, pretty well. DaDakota
The thing is, he'll be more active than most 7'2" plus guys (probably the most active TALL freak show in NBA history). And he sure as hell won't be as good as Sampson or Jabbar. He's not number 1 material. He holds more baggage than Odom at this point.
Kareem was listed at 7' 2" - What in the world do those other sideshows have to do with a #1 pick? Ralph was 7' 4" and held up a about 4 or 5 solid years then he feel apart. Manute is a hell of a boxer though
The better question is : Is Yao Ming really a consensus number 1 draft choice? Duncan and Shaq are examples of a consensus number one picks. Michael Olowokandi is an example of a nonconsensus number one pick. Here lies the rub. Yoa is not a consensus number one pick, since his game needs work to justify the top pick.
If Ming were Italian and had been brought up in the European leagues - there would'nt be the mystery and political hype that is making him a #1- top ten yeah- no way a number 1- The fact that they won't even let us look at him - tells me to run away- trade down or just take him straight up Caron Butler - perfect fit
Ralph Sampson held up pretty well? If that were true, his number would be hanging in the Compaq Center and we'd probably have more than two rings. Here's hoping Ming holds up better than Ralph.
Sampson had a good career. You have to feel bad for the guy. He definitely would have been one of the greats if he had stayed healthy. As far as Yao goes, one would hope the draft jinx of Sampson doesnt bite again. I honestly could see it happening.
<i>Let's be honest people if Ming wasn't 7-5 would we really consider him to have the skills of a number 1 draft choice. His upper body strength is not that good and even Ming said he doesn't like lifing weights. </i> That doesn't matter in the least. His worth is not solely based on his skill. No big man in the history of the NBA had skills equivilent to a guard (that includes Hakeem). His worth is based on effectiveness and his size factors into that. This is just a variation on one of the "If Shaq weren't huge, he wouldn't be any good" threads that seem to pop up every so often. Last time I checked Shaq was still 300lb and Yao was still 7'5". If they weren't that big, their games would be different. Would they still play in the NBA? Who cares? You can play this game with every player in the league. If Steve Francis wasn't athletic, would he be an all-star? If Larry Bird were 6'2," would he be in the Hall of Fame? If Mugsey Bogues were 6'9", would he be the best player ever? If Tim Duncan was 6'4", would he have the skills to be the #1 pick? Yao has size and he also has skills. Yao is a great shooter. Don't believe me? Let's think about this. Everybody is saying the guy can't post up, some people even seem to think that he'll never be able to post up. Ok, let's go with that idea. The guy shoots an incredible percentage from the floor. He shot 63.9% from the floor at the Sydney Olympics. That was pretty good competition. So, if he's got no post up game, then he must be shooting lights out on his jumper, right? We (myself included) always say we need post up scoring, but what we really mean is we need consistent, high percentage scoring. If Yao can shoot a high percentage, then I don't care if he's shooting from the parking lot. In fact a guy that shot around 50% from the floor and didn't clog up the middle would be perfect for the Rockets. Yao is a great passer. Go read any of the quotes from NBA people. Everybody agrees on that. Yao is a good shotblocker. Sure, he's a good shotblocker because of his height, but that's not going away. <i>Kareem was listed at 7' 2" - What in the world do those other sideshows have to do with a #1 pick? Ralph was 7' 4" and held up a about 4 or 5 solid years then he feel apart. Manute is a hell of a boxer though</i> Ok, so the initial argument was "I can't think of anyone over 7'2" who has held up over the long term.". Then when somebody gives examples, it gets qualified to #1 picks only? Ok, let's play it that way. Jabbar was actually closer to 7'3" or 7'4", but he was listed in the program at 7'2", so we'll throw him out. Hmm...over 7'2" and a #1 pick. Looks like we're down to Ralph. So, now we're going to generalize about any player over 7'2" that is selected #1, based on a sample of 1 player? That doesn't seem real accurate. Ralph's career got cut short by a knee injury when an opponent fell into his leg, it wasn't a stress related injury, so I fail to see how that is any different than any other (shorter) player that has incurred an injury. <i>Is Yao Ming really a consensus number 1 draft choice? Duncan and Shaq are examples of a consensus number one picks. Michael Olowokandi is an example of a nonconsensus number one pick. Here lies the rub. Yoa is not a consensus number one pick, since his game needs work to justify the top pick</i> Yes and in most seasons there is no concensus #1 pick. Do you suggest that we just skip the draft? Steve Francis was a potential #1 pick, but he wasn't a consensus choice. Is that a problem? The last concensus #1 pick was Tim Duncan, but they still hold the draft. A concensus #1 pick, just means that you don't have to give much thought to the draft process, it's a no-brainer. In other years, it requires alot more effort, which the Rockets are putting in.
Rarely are players listed shorter than they are Jabbar was 7' give or take- none the less he is worlds - universes away from Ming or Sampson (who if coming out in this draft would be #1) above 7' 2" the player just can't handle the pounding of season as a full time starter. I like Sampson alot and when Hakeem entered the picture we made the finals (with the magic shot from Sampson). Duncan was the last consensus #1 - there have'nt been many true #1 worthy picks over the last decade. Superstars are coming from all parts of the draft. We can't have allstars in every position Caron Butler - and a key pick up say Euwing and were back in the mix.
10 years ago the average size of an offensive lineman was 260. Now you can hardly find a lineman under 300lbs. Iknow your going to say thats football no basketball. Ok then look haw many 7 footers there were playing basketball 10 years ago. Look how many there are now. Their poping up everywhere. This is a stupid argument. Your basically saying we shouldn't draft Ming because he is too tall.
7' 5" with tons of political baggage - weird as s contracts with the Chinese Pro league/Gov - our doc can't look at him- our coach and GM can't talk to him. Also he's 7' 5" (did ya know that) and will most likely wear out quickly getting pounded in the NBA. if you put extra smilies it makes your point stronger...
Also ask our ol' friend Camaneti about the size increase in baseball (and the decrease in size of the Jewels) - that does'nt make em taller but 7' does not make a superstar - aka Big Country the leader amoung many tall untalented oafs.
Yes I must relax - but this is most fun i've had with the Rockets since Moochie got chased by that bat. Did it ever come out of his hair?
AElliot, Since the pick is a not no-brainer, that is why there is such a hot debate. Will Yoa prove his worth as a number one pick? I do not know. The touchstone that Yoa will be measured against is whether he will be a 20/10/5 man. If he is not putting up those numbers by his mid 20s, the Rocks will have "blown" the pick. I am not saying that Yoa will be a bust if he missed those numbers, just that he has not proven his worth as the first pick. IMO, I think Yoa is worth the chance. I like his lower body strength, which should help him in the low post offensively and defensively. In particular, I have great hope that Yoa could develop a Jabbar like sky hook. I also like his height, given his shooting touch. He should have a killer 10-15' game, which will drive opposing coaches crazy since there is no way to defense it. Finally. I like what Yoa would do for the franchise off the court. Yoa will immediately give the Rockets more respect through the league. People will want to see him play on national TV, no matter what the Rockets current W-L record is. 1.2 billion new Rockets fans also can not be a bad thing Given the above, there is also a chance that Yoa's talent has peaked and will never develop into the type of player both you and I think that he can become. Given this chance, I am not opposed to trading the pick as long as the Rockets get a 20/10 man in return.
I think the only debate is here on this BBS. There are very few experts, GM's and coaches debating this. Also I doubt Ming has peaked considering he is only 21. And finally, I don't think any of the pro Ming people (including me) are opposed to trading the #1 as long as we get fair value for it. It's just that some us disagree with what fair value is. Odom and two picks aren't fair value to me.
