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[In-Depth] Analyzing the 2012 NBA Draft: Piecing Together Morey’s Draft Board

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Marsarinian, Jun 29, 2012.

  1. Marsarinian

    Marsarinian Contributing Member

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    Good point. This really illustrates that most NBA teams don't simply have a literal "board" or "ranking" of prospects that they follow, bur rather an extremely complex and intricate web of different scenarios, and scenarios based on other scenarios, etc.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwtvTz1LXd4&feature=youtu.be

    This recent video showing the Dallas Mavericks War Room on the even of the draft really demonstrates this point.

    In addition, teams rate prospects in tiers, with considerations of raw talent, market/ trade value, and myriad other factors. There can be multiple propsects with lateral overall value as well. In this thread I have tried to focus on trying to identify which were the best prospects for Morey on the player evaluation level. But really, all of the different scenarios are just simply too difficult for someone without inside information to analyze.
     
  2. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    *shrug*
    *meh*

    Rocket River
     
  3. Alvin Choo

    Alvin Choo Member

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    great analysis.
    But, if the main idea of this draft is to get Dwight. Then we should be drafting to who Magic wants, not the BPA.

    If DM trade away Bud for the 18th which is likely to be between white, zeller and jones.
    And Big Sam and 14th for fillers and Lamb when we already have Martin and Lee, subsequently causing downgrade on the center which is our weakest position.

    Unless DM get a trade later to reduce the number of players, we basically is left with a 39 year old center, LOADS of Pfs that need playing time, 2 sophomore at the 3 spot, 3 SGs which need and deserve playing time, and 2 PGs who might not even be at Rox next season.....

    So the "great" draft basically creates more problem and not really solving anything other than getting players with potential and playing time at positions where there is NOT enough playing time.

    Hence I sincerely hope DM have a few more cards up his sleeve, or we might actually just traded away Bud and Sam for starters playing for the Vipers....
     
  4. rocketjunkie

    rocketjunkie Member

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    Excellent post. You may be right about Ross. Also, it does seem like Doc Rocket may have described the rockets priority. Their 5 target appears to be MKG, and perhaps Drummond was a second choice if MKG had already been taken. Lamb and Ross were also identified.
     
  5. mike_lu

    mike_lu Member

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    It's funny to see so many people impatient with the Rocket's current strategy when it has been only two years of mediocrity since Yao/T-Mac's careers ended.

    If we go the tanking route, and tank badly enough to be in consideration for top 5 picks, the road back to respectability would drive those people crazy.
     
  6. valorita

    valorita Member

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  7. TexAg713

    TexAg713 Member

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    This worries me the most.
     
  8. ShiniKashi

    ShiniKashi Member

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    Not if you're trying to sell a PF/C Hybrid
     
  9. JoeBarelyCares

    JoeBarelyCares Contributing Member

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    Other than DMo, do we have any? We have a ton of SF/PF hybrids.
     
  10. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

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    Amazing analysis and a great read. Well done! Repped.
     
  11. tofu--

    tofu-- Member

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    Okay Morey, you can stop pretending to be someone else. We welcome you here on Clutchfans.
     
  12. HI Mana

    HI Mana Member

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    There are 3 things that point very strongly to Jeremy Lamb being taken by Phoenix if the Rockets had not passed him up:

    1. Phoenix was the first team to give Dion Waiters a promise very early in the process. They were clearly comfortable drafting a 2-guard without an heir apparent to Steve Nash.

    2. Kendall Marshall was not given a green room invite. If the Suns had shown a strong inclination to draft a PG, he would have secured a spot. Clearly the Suns didn't tip their hand early, which signals a draft day audible when their favorite prospects were taken.

    3. Jeremy Lamb was shut down for a few weeks with his high ankle sprain, but still managed to hobble through a workout in Phoenix, reportedly impressing with his toughness. Chad Ford also reported that the Suns had not been able to get Terrence Ross to come in for a workout/interview, but that they were still strongly considering taking him; again pointing to the fact that Phoenix was comfortable filling their gaping hole at the 2-guard.

    Add it all up, along with the fact that the Rockets did make the trade to leapfrog Phoenix, and it certainly smells like the Rockets cashed in on info to get their man.
     
  13. Marsarinian

    Marsarinian Contributing Member

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    Lol I'm going to take that as a great compliment. Only if Morey were 5'8", 130 pounds, and Asian. :p
     
  14. Dreamin

    Dreamin Member

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    my sig provides awesome analysis and insight.
     
  15. nadman89

    nadman89 Member

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    great post ! that was a great read , but honestly i dont think lillard wouldve been 6 on the draft board i feel harrison barnes wouldve been 6th lamb possibly @ 7 i dont think lillard is a better prospect than barnes and honestly the fact that lillard didnt play a top 25 team would be taken into account by moreys metrics because he really hasnt been challenged hes like kellen moore from boise st basically and we saw what happened to him in the nfl draft
     
  16. Kwame

    Kwame Contributing Member

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    Marsarinian, can I get an answer to this question or do you not want to commit to a time-frame like most Morey apologists? It was based on this initial response you gave me below:

     
  17. Marsarinian

    Marsarinian Contributing Member

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    You don't seem to grasp the idea of probabilities.

    For example, let's say you and another person throw dices. You have a 30% chance of willing, and he has a 20% chance of winning for every throw. You two take the same number of throws. Whoever wins gets $1, and whoever loses gets nothing.

    After 5 throws, you might find that you have $1, while he has $3. According to your logic of only looking at results, he did better than you! Should you stop throwing yourself and employ him to throw dices for you, when you know that he has a lower chance of winning?

    Of course not. You should continue to throw the dice yourself, since in the long run, you will always have a better chance of winning.

    For the front office, working to find that star either in trade, draft or free agency is like throwing dices. You position yourself to have a better chance of winning than others, but that doesn't mean that you'll win before they do. Each try is an independent event over which you have no control. To say something like "promise me we'll be contenders in 2 years" is like saying "guarantee me $5 after 10 throws." It's completely meaningless. No one can guarantee you that.

    Can I get an answer from you to my question? What do you think we should do that Morey has not already done? I'd like to see a coherent argument from you proving that your idea will be able to guarantee us contender status in x number of years. If it's really that good, hey, I'm sure the Rockets will be more than happy to adapt that plan.
     
    #57 Marsarinian, Jul 1, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2012
  18. Kwame

    Kwame Contributing Member

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    No need for an unnecessarily verbose response to my straight-forward question. I was simply going off the 3-5 year time frame which you pointed out in your original response to me. You indicated that this rebuilding process began one year ago, but now you're backing away from the Rockets being contenders in 2-4 years. I made a logical inference that if, according to you, the Rockets rebuilding takes 3-5 years with one year already passed, you would expect the process to be complete and for Houston to be contenders in 2-4 years.

    Essentially, you don't want to hold Morey accountable for a lack of results and don't want to attach a time-frame for how long it will take the Rockets to transform into contenders under the current regime. Thus, you're basically giving him a free pass to do what he's doing for however long it takes, because you "feel" or "think" he's on the right track. In your post above you've also included a built-in excuse for him failing to deliver on his strategies to improve the team. Therefore, it's "unjustifiable" to ever criticize Morey for anything in the eyes of people like you. What a sweet gig! Bottom line is that this is a results oriented business and the Rockets have only won a single playoff series in over 15 years.

    This is the first time you've asked me that question and I'll answer it immediately unlike you. I'm in the letting the younger players develop camp. You can call it "tanking" or whatever you want.

    Let the younger guys go out there and play for a season or two to show which ones can achieve some or all of their potential. The team won't do well, but younger players will receive invaluable experience and the Rockets will receive high lottery picks. Rebuilding this way is much more sensible to me than the probabilities approach you outline and endorse above. Both have risks and both involve an element of luck, but thus far Morey's strategy of flipping his "assets" for a top-ten pick or trading for a star have failed. It's time to rethink that approach. Also, before you say that it's Les who has mandated the "rebuild while staying competitive" approach, Morey is the GM and he has an obligation to convince him on what the best path forward will be. If he doesn't act on this responsibility, he must agree with Les on some level. If he can't act on this obligation, then he should resign, because he obviously can't perform his duties as a gm.
     
    1 person likes this.
  19. Marsarinian

    Marsarinian Contributing Member

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    When I said 3-5 years, I meant that that was what I understood to be the "long term" time frame that the team is eyeing. Of course everybody hopes that we are contenders by the end of that (and of course before that too), but no one has a crystal ball that will tell you what's going to happen in the future. You just have to go with the best approach possible, and live with the results. Some teams get lucky and can get it done in 3 years. Some teams find themselves stuck for 20. Given how competent our front office has been, I am confident that the time needed is on the low side for us. But again, when you've made the best effort, taken the best approach, and just get unlucky a few years in a row and then get fired, do you think that's what you deserve? We'll only be able to find a replacement that's less competent, makes worse decisions, and takes longer to make us a contender.

    I do "think" he's on the right track, because I try hard to understand his methodology, his moves, and I agree with what he's been trying to do. I believe that our front office's current plan is the best way for the franchise to move forward, and constitutes the shortest path to eventual contention. I guess we are different in that I am much more tolerant of "results" as traditionally interpreted. I cannot tolerate incompetence, but I can tolerate lack of results when the best possible efforts have already been made.

    I'm sorry for not responding immediately, I am in Japan currently and there's a 10 hour time difference. Sorry for remembering wrong whether I've asked you this question before - I don't mean to sound confrontational.

    Um, isn't this what Morey is trying to do? If you look at the current moves that we're trying to pull off - i.e. trying to trade Scola to the Nets for expirings + picks, trading Martin, Lowry etc. for potential stars, those moves are clearing space for the youngsters to develop. Are we not going young enough? We now have 7 players from the past two drafts combined.

    Does Morey not want high draft picks? He's tried more than anybody else to move up in the draft. I can understand handing the reins to the young players and living with the results, but as for actually deliberately trying to be bad, I think that:

    a. it's not fair for the coaching staff
    b. implements a bad team culture and bad locker room
    c. hurts young players' psychological development and maturity
    d. hurts players' trade value
    e. makes the team a bad free agent destination
    f. involves getting less than max value from veterans, etc., again losing value from assets

    In a nutshell, what you think the team should be doing, it is already doing. Morey is taking risks, lots of risks. We're pursuing a star in the draft, in free agency, in trades, everywhere.

    The only thing that you've been adamant on that I disagree with is your focus on "blaming and punishing someone if there are no results to show for it." I don't think this is necessary. In the end, blame is irrational and isn't the point of "accountability" to encourage more hard work and a better approach? Morey is working hard. His approach is sound. I suggest you spend more time trying to understand actually what's being done, and make more constructive comments about what more could be done.

    At the end of the day, we can agree to disagree. I respect you as a poster, and I don't expect every fan to think the same way. The beauty of sports is that it incites passion from very different people, and it's capable of bringing us together. :)
     
    #59 Marsarinian, Jul 1, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2012
    1 person likes this.
  20. bugerking3

    bugerking3 Member

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    This deserves a bump.

    Big Thanks to Marsarinian for his hard work.

    It looks like Morey got his coveted top 5 pick in his first year (robinson) for a player he rated #6 in his 3rd year (patterson), except in terms of tiers, robinson is a tier above patterson.

    This is not like we got Jordan Hill, who got drafted 8th, but was lower on the Rockets draft board. Robinson was top 5 on the Rockets board, and in the tier of all star potential, as opposed to solid starter potential designated for late lottery picks.

    GG Morey.
     

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