Are they currently up 2-0 with wins by Clemens and Oswalt with a rotation set the way they wanted it because they beat the Braves 3-0?
Most likely something close to that because we don't have A DUMB*** r****d POSING AS A MANAGER!!! Even if the Astros start the series out like they did with Backe and Munro, they should at the very very very worst have a split right now 1-1. I am infuriated right now; I'm still very pissed off. Garner, for the love of God, PLEEEEEEEEASE get a clue and figure out how to manage a pitching staff.
Backe I understand. 4 2/3 innings isn't what we need from our starting pitchers, but he was pitching on three days rest. But Munro? Unacceptable. He was well-rested (as will happen when you haven't pitched in a couple weeks), and his lack of pitching time recently didn't seem to be hurting his performance last night. If Munro stays in, I doubt @ssJuls gets on base or Rolen homers. He still might have been gone in time for Miceli to give up those two solo shots, though. Both of our starting pitchers for the past two days have pitched extremely well. It's our damned bullpen.
Glad to know I wasn't the only one mad at Garner last night for having a quick hook with Munro. Munro was pitching well...made a mistake...and then was pulled. He had gotten himself out of trouble all night long. Unless something else went on that I don't know about, like injury or fatigue, I think that's a very bad move. If you have a strong bullpen, I probably wouldn't care. But again...we're handicapping our strengths and asking for more out of our weaknesses. Makes no sense to me.
I think we win the World series with LaRussa, Garner is a wild card. I know he is doing what he thinks is right, the players, especially the bullpen are just not very good. He needs to bench Qualls, Miceli, and use Wheeler more. DD
The biggest mistake Munro made was a walk to Marlon Anderson... and if Jimy was still around, that is where he would have been pulled. But, Phil let him stay in... and he gives up the homer to Walker... if Larussa was manager, THAT is where he would have been pulled. But, Phil let him stay in... and he gives up the screaming single to Pujols, putting the tying run on base... that is where he was eventually pulled. Phil knows that he's not got much in that bullpen... but he also knows that he's got a retread pitcher, with a 5.67 ERA, who's now being seen by the best lineup in baseball for the 3rd time in the game... AND its the 5th inning (notriously known as a time when pitcher's struggle, and the hitters capitilize... no matter which pitcher you are.) I give Pete all the kudos in the world for giving us 4 of the most quality innings we've seen this entire post-season... but, I most definitely did not expect him to get out of that inning. Harville should have come in to face Pujols... he had actually struck him out a couple of weeks ago in St. Louis (which is a rare feat). (btw... if you guys are seriously this high on LaRussa, you should see what some Cardinals fans have to say. Remember... he's technically had the best talent in the division every year since 96... and he's yet to get max results out of that team, until this year).
at some point in time, Munro was going to be pulled, and either Harville or Miceli was going to be brought in to hold the fort down so IMO, whether it was done in the 5th inning or the 7 innings, its just a moot point. At some point in time, our middle relief/set up guys were going to have to hold the Cards down! BTW ...I had a gut feeling that the 3rd time through the order would have eventually chased Munro anyway. Just not realistic to think that a journeyman pitcher with mediocre, at best, stuff was going to hold the Cards down for any longer than he did.
the less this bullpen is on the field, the better, in my view. if you're getting a quality start...which is what Munro was giving us..i don't think you pull him that quickly, knowing that you'll have to turn to guys like micelli and harville to hold the game down.
but the fact of the matter is, Miceli and Harville both have better stuff than Munro Plus, we don't know what he had left .........I just think you have to defer to Garner, Hickey and Ausmus there if Garner had let Munro stay to get knocked around some more, he would have been vilified .......all these situations are lose-lose for Garner The Lidge decision ..is another story of course
micelli and harville are middle relievers for a reason. not good enough to be starters..not good enough to be closers. guys like that are inconsistent from year to year and from appearance to appearance. i'm certainly not saying munro is a stud pitcher...but he had good command last night, and was able to pitch out of what little trouble he got himself in to. i would have let him finish that inning, frankly. i said, "please dont' pull him" and the next picture was of garner stepping out of the dugout with the hook. i still think that's a mistake.
Come on man. They are releivers because thats what they are, not because their stuff is weaker. Lidge's stuff is as good as anyone, even Clemens. Max, See my post in the other thread about Munro's history in the middle innings. He tends to get hammered during that time. Fact is, the percentages and history say to pull Munro at that time.
1. not true. middle relievers come and go. they're not starters or closers b/c they haven't proven themselves in that vein...and some have been in the league for some time. remember that lidge joined this team as a middle reliever. he then was crowned closer after the dotel trade because he earned his way into that spot. these are guys who've been in the league for years and never proven that....as a legit closer or as a starter. it's the very nature of the job. i'm not at all saying that lidge doesn't have as good of stuff as clemens does...not saying that at all. that's not my point. i'im drawing distrinctions between real closers (lidge, wagner, etc.) and starters from those who are middle relievers. no one goes to the bigs thinking, "i can't wait to be the next great career middle reliever!" 2. i hear ya on the percentages. i still take my chances with munro, who seemed to be pitching a very good game at that point over harville or micelli or even gallo. again...in that game he had pitched his way through trouble. geez, if you're gonna start him just to have him come out after 5, go ahead and throw clemens on 3 days rest. the guy had given up 2 runs the entire game and looked good. i'll take my chances with that. i understand you disagree with me...garner did, too, apparently. but at this point, if you're asking me to choose between more innings with any of the starting rotation or more innings with the bullpen...i'm choosing the starters...even when their name is Munro.
In fairness, I like Harville's stuff much better than Munro. Munro is a junk baller who gets by on fooling people and keeping them off balance. Thats what he was doing to the Cards. He wasn't blowing them away and most of the hits were hit pretty hard (some of the outs were too). He kept the ball down early, but his control faltered in the 5th when he was leaving stuff up in the zone. The Cards started to tatooe his pitches. I just don't see how you can leave someone as fragile as he is to face murder's row. In a perfect world, he is a mop up long reliever, rather than a 4th or even 5th starter. BTW ...if you make the argument that Miceli shouldn't have been allowed to pitch to the Cards fab 4 in a game situation, then I don't see how anyone could make the argument that Munro be allowed to do so.
We will sweep the next 3 at home. That much I am confident of. It is going to be hard pulling out a win in St luwee next week but it is definitely doable. We lost due to hard luck more so that Garner's miscalculations. I still believe.
Nice reality check... this is about our injuries to Pettitte and Miller. Way to give up, fellas. I still believe. Go 'Stros!
thats my point Max. Thats what he does. His history CLEARLY says that he gets hammered during the middle innings, which usually coincided with the 3rd time through the lineup. Munro tends to hold his own the first few innings, like he did last night. Its not like he was no hitting the Cards or dominating them with nasty stuff. The way Walker and Pujols pummled him, what else was left to suggest that yesterday's game was going to be different than it has been for Munro all year??
Both arguements for and against bringing in the reliever for Munro are vaild, and after seeing what codell has to say, I can live with Garner's decision and I'm not as mad about that. However, if Larussa is manager of the Astros, I don't see him bringing anyone besides Lidge to pitch to freaking Pooholes, Rolen, Edmonds.
