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Houston with Dwight vs Houston without Dwight

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by JD88, Feb 7, 2015.

  1. douglasreedy1

    douglasreedy1 Member

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    I don't disagree about not pursuing bosh or love... Regarding the OP, it's good work... Very interesting... Obviously small sample size, but hopefully Dwight will do somewhat do what everyone wants him to do when he comes back... But then who knows when that will be... And then IF he is fully healthy when he comes back, then he should be a better player for the team generally speaking.
     
  2. SemisolidSnake

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    Everything about this I agree with, especially the part about playing like Dorsey.

    Dorsey's playing to the strengths he has, and he's having a positive effect a lot of times. He can't score too well right now, but he puts in a lot of effort pulling down boards and showing energy. A Dwight playing like that would help our second change points immensely, plus he could score more effectively through dunks, and his defense on the other end would help to cut down those paint points by the other team.

    That said, I agree about the three guys we have now. We're a little small, but they're holding their own and even thriving. You can probably play any two of them together at a time and they'll make things happen. Hell, we've seen it already.

    We went through a lot of trouble to get Dwight and are paying a lot of money. It just doesn't seem like they brought him in, though, with any plans on how to use him to get the most out of him. I've seen this happen so many times in business. You hire somebody with supposedly impeccable credentials and give them a far salary only to find out a) you didn't figure out how to use them efficiently, b) they're not going to expend any effort to figure out how to integrate efficiently, and c) they want to do things THEIR way instead of being open to change. Every time, it drags down the team, and they end up getting let go pretty quickly. It's tough to find good people, but about a third of it up to you knowing how to use, a third is them being as good as advertised, and a third is them being open and flexible to fitting in and improving themselves. I don't know that we have any of those with Dwight.
     
  3. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    You are right that this kind of comparison has a lot of flaws because of the many different factors not accounted.

    However, I think it is quite apparent at this point that the Rockets, at least this season, do not miss Dwight when he is out, not the first time earlier in the season, not this time. I wouldn't say they are better without him. But they aren't much worse, if at all, without him either.

    Whatever reasons his lack of impact comes from (injuries, motivation, playing style, stubbornness, or whatever), the fact is, our highest paid player is not a very good value at this point.
     
  4. koldlaser

    koldlaser Member

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    Pretty much this^^^
    The Rockets are handcuffed to this marriage. It's a shotgun wedding from the
    beginning with Howard and his suspect post game. Whether they win a championship or not the Rockets front office would look foolish around the league paying Dwight that much money then asking him to withdraw his post touches.

    Enjoy this moment of sport clarity
    Rockets fans, because when D12 returns, his post ups will demand a spot in the middle of your warm bed. Happy marriage.
     
  5. JD88

    JD88 Member

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    Oh how I wish he'd just accept a 'secondary' role.

    Instead of 1A and 1B with Harden, just be #2.

    That's why I think this team without Dwight has been so good. Because the length and athleticism and the hussle on defense to grab boards and set good screens, to make hard cuts, quick passing and all that, they seem fundamentally sharper.

    They're just playing solid, balanced basketball as a unit. They have been since Dwight went out.

    If this team goes 8-2 or 7-3 in the next 10, the pressure for Dwight to take a back seat when he returns will boil.
     
  6. Icehouse

    Icehouse Contributing Member

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    Anyone feel like posting Harden's numbers with and without Howard?
     
  7. Phillyrocket

    Phillyrocket Member

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    If Dwight would take on a Deandre Jordan role it would be perfect.

    Just rebound, defend and dunk.
     
  8. benchmoochie

    benchmoochie Contributing Member

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    Offense fluidity improves. Defense takes a hit.
     
  9. JD88

    JD88 Member

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    26.7
    6.9
    5.4
    48/43/81

    Those are his numbers the last 7 games Dwight hasn't been playing. His game hasn't really changed, its everyone else that has stepped up.
     
  10. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Fans are obsessed with the idea of finding a scapegoat.
     
  11. Remii

    Remii Member

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    It's always politics and egos in sports when dealing with players with huge contracts. And I'm not just talking about Howard's ego but the ego of the Rockets management and coaching staff for believing he can be transformed into a great post player so late in his career.

    Well, if it makes you feel any better... Because of his health if/when he does return he may not be 100% healthy so he may not have a choice but to take a backseat.
     
  12. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    Horse ****, it is fans are obsessed with figuring out what is best for the team.

    No one cares to scape goat, everyone cares about winning, and what works best to get there.

    DD
     
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  13. Exiled

    Exiled Member

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    I don't get the negativity toward Howard, we can't blame him for bricked 3s from Ariza and PB or Smith's turnovers etc ..those are the things hurt the roc.

    Howard post moves ,draw double teams and open someone else to hit .
     
  14. Remii

    Remii Member

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    Wait... Don't put fans like me in that category. I never wanted Howard in a Rockets uniform in the 1st place because I'm one to believe that he didn't carry Orlando to the championship series... Orlando carried him. Lewis and the rest of those dudes were ballin out of control that year and everything was falling for them and our team isn't built like that. And I never agreed with giving a big man such a huge contract with such a limited offensive game.

    But I never expected him to start falling apart health wise. But I do remember some fans who were opposed to getting Howard expected him to start falling apart... And as of now he is.
     
  15. TheFreak

    TheFreak Contributing Member

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    I don't think Dwight erased enough mistakes last year in the playoffs. Portland way over-performed offensively in comparison to their regular season.
     
  16. jbasket

    jbasket Member

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    And the Thunder did well without Westbrook two years ago. How'd that go for them in the playoffs? Very similar situation with KD, whom many consider the alpha with a sidekick whom takes shots away from him. Quite frankly, we are going to get absolutely dumped on in the playoffs if Dwight isn't around; it won't be pretty. Unfortunately, then people will see, once again (26/13 series clearly not good enough), that he is a good value. Even if we make the hilariously crazy assumption that Harden keeps this level in the playoffs. He hasn't quite played up to snuff the past two years.
     
  17. mfastx

    mfastx Member
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    This team is miles better with a healthy Dwight, he was obviously hampered by injuriy the majority of the season.

    A healthy Dwight makes us more dynamic on offense and significantly better on defense.

    We can debate whether or not we are better without an injury riddled Dwight during the regular season but all of use know we aren't winning a championship without healthy so it doesn't matter.

    If we want to get rid of Dwight then we need to restructure this team, who knows what Morey could so with an extra $20 million.
     
  18. tycoonchip

    tycoonchip Member
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    There is nothing wrong with him wanting to bang in the post. In fact i want him to bang in the post. The problem is like Dadakota and I have stated is that the ball gets way too sticky. He needs to learn when to pass the ball. Shaq and Hakeem knew when to pass the ball. If he can't get himself in position to score quickly he needs to pass it out quickly so someone else can immediately. Everyone is playing better right now because there is no delay in reaction to passing. He has to allow it to flow. Dwight drawing that attention in the paint is not a problem. It is a good thing. He just has to bang in the paint quicker or it just needs to get to the open man quicker so the ball can continue to move.
     
  19. The_Yoyo

    The_Yoyo Contributing Member

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    The biggest issue is Dwight is a horrible ball handler compared to Dmo and Josh. A Dwight post-up is a mismatch almost any given night given his strength, athleticism and explosiveness -- BUT he is so indecisive with his moves. I don't know if its from years of constant media comparisons to Shaq and all but he wants to back in his guy and then make a move. Times are different Shaq didn't play the prime of his career with the zone defense rules and was a much more gifted offensive player. Dwight has no where near the shooting touch or footwork of Hakeem but does posses the quickness and athleticism. The times when Dwight has had major success in the post is when: he faces up and makes at max a 2 dribble move into the paint; one dribble out of a post up into his version of the sweeping hook; one dribble spin off the glass.

    Again all of these moves have at most two dribbles and are quick moves. Outside of pick and roll situation (where he is just a beast) these are the moves he needs to concentrate on. The series against Portland when he had his big offensive games - it was a result of quick moves. He was unstoppable. When Dwight gets on a roll like that the opposing team has no choice but to foul which just opens up the game for everyone else.

    I do think Dwight is a capable and a good passer out of the post but most of the times his passes come from a stationary position instead of on the move (like DMo and Smith) so it makes it easier to trap him and cause turnovers.

    I will add these two caveats though:

    I think Dwight understands completely what he has to do - but I think with the injuries he has and is recovering from I think he is trying to save his body for the playoffs when it really matters. We saw in the preseason and early in the season the athleticism was there he was dunking balls from spots that I hadn't seen since Orlando. I think the recent procedure will help him sustain that sort of play for the playoffs (and if he has to get surgery in the offseason so be it).

    The second is - and this is not his fault -- he is a athletic freak and is very hard to officiate. Like Shaq, Yao etc -- guys like him do not get their fair share of calls. Defenders hold, grab, hack and flop all the time against him with no real consequence from the referees. Some of those turnovers are a result of bad calls (flops) and non-calls against him.

    While I wish we had a backup center like John Henson to protect the basket when Dwight is out (instead of Dorsey that is who is much better this stint around but still undersized) our big man rotation of DMo, Smith and Jones is one of the best and once Dwight is best I do think it can compete with the other big man rotations in the league. I do think the time Jones is getting now and blending back with them is huge. The coaches and Dwight must see the impact he is having not being there defensively and letting him know what he must do when he is back to achieve success. I do think Dwight must be involved in the offense for him to be engaged on defense (thats just how most big men are) - but I think (or hope) he realizes that this team despite not having that "second play maker" is much more offensively talented than last years team and that its not incumbent on him to get 20-22 a night.
     
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  20. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    We got dumped on last playoffs with Dwight. I know it wasn't his fault. But the point remains. We lost (or would have won) not because of Dwight but because of Harden disappearing and because DMo was the DMo of last season.

    See? If we had a good DMo last playoffs, we could have won. Would you then say that without DMo we would get dumped on? Every rotation player is important for playoff success.

    If Dwight Howard can't make much of an impact in the regular season and only contribute in the playoffs, how is he different from a 40-year-old Mutombo?
     

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