ok, im happy you think that way... good for you... surely all these african americans that convert happen to come from the middle eastern and asian families... yep we just pop out black babies... 30% of muslims here are african americans... so that shoooots down your tiny base theory none. the question is, what type of filthy people commit this crime, and why are they not punished.
But that's the point its culture not religion. As others have pointed out honor killings are committed by Hindus in India, I've heard they are also practiced by animists and Christians in Africa and by Christians in Latin America. An honor killing isn't some religious ritual its essentially a father or brother saying to a daughter or sister, "If I see you with that guy then I will kill you." and doing it.
30% of a tiny base is still...... A TINY NUMBER. Are you unable to see that? An example for you to understand: If I said that there aren't many Mavericks fans in Cleveland, and you said 30% of Mavericks fans living in Cleveland are African Americans, does that shoot down my statement? Of course not. You are clueless. GOOD DAY
no its like you saying taht all maverick fans are kids of other white maverick fans, but then someone points out that 30% of them are from former houston fans... thats a huge number buddy. you sir just like to hear what you want to... good day to you as well.
My point is that Buddhist morality is not dictated by a god. If morality is dictated by a god there is no reason to have a brain.
Is it still legal to shoot you spouse and their paramour if they are caught in the act in the state of Texas? I'm pretty sure it used to be.
You are very mistaken, but I can't blame you, because the impression we get, and the brand of Islam that makes the headlines is that of the one which is more fundamentalist in orientation. This fundamentalism grew more fervor during the 50's and 60's as a reaction to colonialism in Muslim lands. It's no mistake that rigid fascism is appealing to a group hoping to gain legitimacy in any type of struggle. Islamic theology, philosophy, and jurisprudence is actually extremely complex. There are different schools of thought on jurisprudence (5 major) from which a follower chooses. There is no clergy and any scholarly edict is not binding. There are different schools of belief based on interpretation, some literal and some allegorical. Islamic philosophy has a very rich history including such thinkers as Averroes. I don't think you could be any more incorrect with your assessment of Islam as a straightforward, authoritarian religion, as that is just the image that an outsider conjures. In reality, Muslims are at conflict with each other on almost every minute fragment of interpretation and practice.
To say Islam is the fastest growing religion is statistically insignificant. If there were 5 muslims last year and there are 10 this year, that makes the growrth rate 100% but they are still a minority among the other 100 people that are Christian. Agnostics, the slowest growing religion in America!!! When I was a kid they used to say Bowling was the fastest growing sport in America. Still could be I guess.
To the numerous posters who have asserted that this is somehow inherent of Islam, I can tell that you are very unfamiliar with that region. This is cultural. It is common practice in India amongst Hindus to burn a widow alive with her deceased husband. The entire region is incredibly misogynistic. No doubt that atleast some of these honor killings were done in the name of Islam, but that doesn't mean that this is implicated in Islamic law. Islamic doctrine does not call for honor killings of females. Some of you guys really love to indict Islam on account of the actions of its supposed followers, which is amusing and quite hypocritical considering the denial you then engage on of the actions of Christians in the name of Christianity. Female infanticide was widespread prior to Islam in Arabia. According to Islamic law, if a person commits fornication or adultery, FOUR WITNESSES MUST BE PRESENT DURING THE ACTUAL ACT OF PENETRATION for the punishment to be carried out. Even then, this can only be carried out under an Islamic government. There's a pretty big difference between "Muslims" and "Islam." You can criticize Muslims, but get your facts straight before you hold the religion accountable.
In third world countries people are less civilized. Religion can help but not completely. The honor killings appear to be done legally. In India, they are banned, and practiced mostly in hostile areas. In the US, people kill eachother, but illegally and are PUNISHED WITH DEATH. In Islamic governments, it appears as if this man willl walk free.
What are these "Islamic governments" that you refer to? Pakistan may be a Muslim majority, but it is by no means an "Islamic government." An Islamic government would be a theocratic rule under the context of the "Shariah." Until this circumstance occurs under that pretext, you simply cannot indict the religion.
Don't waste your time thecabbage, it's futile, some would rather get their 'education' from True Lies and Fox News. I always expect to witness such ignorance from bigtexxx or T_J, but I am rather disappointed to see a poster that usually comes across as well-informed and fair-minded say such things as, "Islam is a simple religion, and that's why it has so many followers." I thought an intellectual Buddhist would bring forth more knowledge to the discussion than such a simplistic view of such a complex 'entity' known as Islam; I am disappointed.
One other thing I thought I would add in regards to this is that if your statement is that people convert to religion in general because it requires little thought, I could see some validity, but why Islam rather than any other religion? Why not choose one of the Christian sects in which the concept of 'good works' is not required and a mere acceptance of Christ is all that is required for salvation? Why would you convert to Islam knowing that you would have to pray 5 times a day, give 2% of your savings in alms, fast an entire month every year, make a pilgrimage to Mecca, and abstain from alcohol, swine, and extramarital sexual relations? That hardly sounds easy to me. I don't think a person would convert to Islam unless they really found the concept of absolute monotheism appealing and were willing to make these sacrifices. As I addressed in my earlier post, Islamic concepts are far from black and white. Every ambiguous word and action of Muhammad is scrutinized in detail to formulate theological schools of thought and from this numerous rifts are created. There is the issue of whether Quranic verses are intended as allegorical, there is the concept of rationalization, and there is the theory of Islam as intended to set the groundwork for social reform etc. al...
Actually, honor killings are illegal in most of those countries, but the authorities often leave tribes alone to settle their own 'feuds' or enforce some sort of a social morality. Honor killings are murders by any other name, but authorities often turn a blind eye to it in order to maintain 'social stability' and not encourage confrontation with these tribes. In other words, it's often 'political manuvering' by the authorities who don't want to stir up trouble for what they deem are minor infractions; I have seen the authorities do this with some bedouins in Egypt, Jordan, as well as Pakistan, India, and some African nations.
I apologize for quoting you in so many posts in succession - I don't mean to bombard you, but I left off something. I'm just not following your reasoning here. Isn't submission more difficult. As far as I can see, converting to Islam would make one's life much more difficult. Wouldn't you rather lead your life and do as you please rather than adhere to some concept of spirituality or morality? Furthermore, you are very mistaken if you think Islam is easily spelled out. Islamic law is very dynamic and very few concepts are absolute. IE: oneness of God is an absolute, indisputed concept. From thereon, the scholars continuously re-evaluate the implications of certain rulings in regards to the corresponding social climate of that time and place. For example, the concept of interest or usery was forbidden in Arabia but there is dispute in regards to whether this is absolute throughout time or if today's present economic factors such as inflation would deem this null. There is the issue of "halal" food - it is said in the Quran that the meat of the people of the book has been made lawful to Muslims. There is dispute over whether present day America can be considered the Christianity referred to in the Quran. It goes on and on. Even then, with no clergy and no binding edicts, it is up to individuals to make their own decisions. Any time you introduce more requirements into your life, and decisions on how to interpret and carry out these requirements, you have obviously made your life increasingly more difficult, confusing, and complicated. You could make the statement that it's dumb to convert to Islam because why take on all that unnecessary obligation, but there is no logical way of concluding that conversion to Islam is for some sake of simplicity.
It goes back to the days of tribal pre-Islamic Arabia where the law of the land was the sword. If you killed someone, the tribe retaliated by either killing one of your men or gave blood money. That's just how these places work.
Yes, I am familiar with that fact. It was practiced in Christian Europe and is still practiced in the heavily Roman Catholic Latin America. However, it has little to do with religion and is more of a cultural phenomena. There is no mention of honor killing in the Quran or Hadiths. Honor killing, in Islamic definitions, refers specifically to extra-legal punishment by the family against the woman, and is forbidden by the Sharia (Islamic law). Religious authorities disagree with extra punishments such as honor killing and prohibit it, so the practice of it is a cultural issue. But since Islam has influence over vast Muslims, culturalists and murderers of females use Islam to justify honor killing even though there is no support for honor killing in Islam. If everyone took the law into their own hands, then social order ceases to exist and choas rules. In many (if not most) of honor-killing cases, the woman is raped due to no fault of her own. In response, she is killed to 'save the honor' of the family; this is forbidden under Islamic law.
It's easy in the sense that you know the expectations. If good works is not required for salvation and it's based on grace etc then you don't really know if your "getting in". It's more a judgement of your heart. That's scary. So if I was a new convert I would chose the one that's more direct and less ambiguous. But in the end they are all looking for the same thing, an eternal life of pure happiness and no suffering. So they will do what it takes to try and acquire this.
