I think the key is to not look at specific numbers here but comparative results. Each situation is going to be different in each school and each district. Obviously, teachers can't constantly improve scores forever - the key is using it comparatively between teachers. For example, if you have a bunch of kids scoring 50% at the end of one year, and they randomly go to 3 different classes, and every year, two of the classes are still scoring 50% and the third is scoring 35%, then you can use that to identify your problem teachers.
What's crazy is some people is passing students strictly on school grades. I basically failed a high school class and the teacher gave me a passing grade anyway. Now imagine all the other students in this same class through out the years that may have gotten passing grades. Standardized tests can catch teachers that inflate their performance by fudging the numbers. Students that can barely read shouldn't be given passing grades.
This post has so much wrong information posted as fact, it is almost believable. The Taks test is the worst thing to ever happen to the public school system. I do not know how many of you have school age children, but for those who do you know what I am talking about. I pulled my kids out of public school last year and enrolled them in a private school. It was the best thng I have ever done for my children. My children have always been straight A students, were in the GT programs, and got commended on all sections of their Taks test, so that is not my reason for feeling this way. My daughter was in the honor society her last year of public school, also. I knew the schools were strictly teaching for the Taks test for all of the classes that were not GT, but was Okay with it because I thought my kids were at least getting a good education in the GT classes. Well, my last straw was when they decided to do away with the Gt classes, and combine them to even out the scores on the test while teaching the Taks test all year round to everyone in the school. This is where I got the shock of how bad public schools had become. While my kids could literally Ace the Taks test and were straight A students in the GT classes, they were way behind when enrolled into the private schools. I am not talking about a little behind, I am talking WAY behind. I have smart children, so they caught on pretty quick, but it was a shock for all the reasons I listed above. My kids are a million times better off after a year and a half in the private schools. They do not teach them for the test anymore. They teach them to critically think. The kids also have fun in school now learning as they have labs, go on all kinds of field trips, and let the kids learn in a comfortable enviroment. There is no pressure on the students, parents, or teachers for some big test. They just do their thing all year and take the test when the time comes. All the students do well on the test also, as their whole school career does not depend on it. It is just another set of test and early release days. Also, Private and charter schools do not give the Taks test. They have their own version of a yearly test, but not with all the stress for everyone involved. It is just to guage where the kids are at, not to punish or keep them from moving on or graduating. It is a whole different world and kids respond much better to it. For those saying we used to push kids through the system before the Taks/Taas test, are you serious? Do you think all the kids who graduate from Highschool now can pass the test? Do you watch sports much? Have you seen or listened to some of the "Highschool/College Graduates" who play? They get pushed through today just like they used to. Nothing has changed in that regard. They just had to changes the methods of doing it. We are dumbing down our society, teaching them to pass a test that has no bering on their lives and forgetting to teach them to learn to think for themselves. It is disgusting what has happenned to the public school system and only a small part of it has anything to do with the teachers. The test scores are basically nothing more than a way for politicians to beat their chest / or opponents to beat them down. They serve no real purpose as the whole system has been smashed beyond repair, simply for these test scores.
You'd be suprised man. Go to any minority majority schools and so many of the kids feel like the system is their enemy. There is absolutely nothing the teachers can do, the damage was done in the conditions these kids grew up in. The reason there are so many kids failing is because of the shattytowns they grew up in. When you grow up with guns going off in the back and your house is near falling down, its no wonder all these kids wanna do is join gangs and do drugs. Even the poor kids who get good grades can't pay for college, so wtf does it matter? The system is completely corrupt. College should be free for everyone.
Administrators are held responsible... it's not surprising (or even new) that teachers are now feeling that heat. The job market for teaching is different than it was 20 years ago, and districts/schools can be more selective.... and since there is economic/financial motivation from the top down to meet standards (read TAKS) this is not at all surprising. I don't know if that implementation is district by district or statewide or what. I can see why the firing of teachers over students' performance would make people upset, but sticking on point I don't see how you can blame HISD for it. There is money at stake. Now there are jobs at stake. These are the systems in place designed to motivate for results under this standardization. Of course Private schools are different. All kids are not meant for private or charter schools, not to mention affording them, so I'm not sure that is productive. And I don't see how the implementation of one method of standardization makes a system "broken beyond repair." I also don't think that because a teacher teaches "To the test" in part of a class that this means they could not do more or cover other material or methods of learning / thinking. Some teachers are better than others, some administrators run schools better than others, some superintendents run their area better... not all schools/areas have proportionate levels of 'at risk' children. Money is a factor from many angles. The standardization accountability seems somewhat misguided and unfair in some ways, but when it was implemented, some level of competency was asked for across the board. Coming up with a better system is good, but standards and subjectivity don't play nice, and that's before politics and other special interests get involved... not to mention money... so it's difficult, especially in a system as inclusive as public schools are. I think that if the teacher's associations/unions want to get mad, maybe now is the time to use that muscle to change the system or implementations of standardization, and not use that energy to fight to keep immunity from it. I know there are districts out there losing (running off) good administrators, and probably teachers now, because of this. It's not (just/really) about beating your chest. It's about money.
The public schools are in very frequently not successful venues for teaching children, or for children to learn, however you want to put it. It is not the Taks test that made them that way. Of course, if the powers that be want to design new test for this purpose, I cannot imagine that anyone is so in love with the Taks test that they would be opposed to a replacement. However, the Taks test is not the problem. The problem is that an unacceptably large number of children perform adequately on this test, so the districts put heavy, direct pressure on the teachers to do what is necessary to make sure the students have learned this basic material. So, they effectively start cramming their classes for the test. The problem is not the test. As you indicated, your kids killed the Taks test. I am confident that virtually all of the other students at the new private school they are attending would do so as well. The problem is not the test, it is that too many of the students in the public schools are not adequately prepared to take Taks test. Sounds like a model for the public schools to follow. Perhaps the public schools should try to replace methods that are failing with methods that are succeeding elsewhere. No, wait. We cannot do that. The teachers unions are opposed to changes like that. Never mind. However, certain charter schools, such as KIPP, which has a big presence here in Houston have proved to be quite successful at teaching children in underprivileged, at risk communities. These schools have adopted the more successful techniques of the private schools, and have shown that they can work quite well, when implemented properly. Charter schools are public schools, but without the teachers unions, and with a contract signed between the parents and the school committing all the parties to a more rigorous agenda, and obligating them to certain responsibilities. There should be more of them. But, the teachers unions are naturally opposed. Well, then maybe the test from the private or charter schools should be substituted to replace Taks. If you are serious about your angle on this, then I would think you would like this idea. But, as I am sure you are aware, the test for the private and charter schools is probably a good bit harder than the Taks test. If you were to give one of these tests to public school students, it would be a disaster. If anyone thinks that public schools students are not performing well on the tests now, just give them the test that the private schools take. It makes me cringe just thinking about it. The blame for the problems can be spread around a lot, but the bottom line is that the public schools in many places are not succeeding in their mission to produce educated children. If anyone thinks getting rid of the Taks test is going to solve this problem, you are mistaken. Without a standardized test, accountability is out the window. The test used can certainly be some other test than the Taks test, but some sort of standardized evaluation needs to be used for accountability's sake.
I imagine there are problems at many public schools but I don't know if you can say all of them or even a lot of them are terrible. My daughter is in public school and she is doing well. I have friends with children in public schools in different areas and they are doing well or have done well and moved on to do well in college too. In order to improve the public school systems you have to hold all parties responsible. The admin, the teachers, parents and students ... You can't complain about the system at the same time you slam the efforts to improve it, including holding the teachers accountable. On the other hand, I have heard bad stories about the private and charter schools too. I don't believe it's the solution or the only solution to the problem.
As a member of the largest teacher's union let me point out that you have no idea what you are talking about. In Los Angeles we actually pushed for standards that teachers must follow just as the students have standards to follow. I work at a school that teaches in a 100% title I population. A majority of our students are English Language learners. We have gone from the bottom of the barrel to beating the state set goal on test taking. Unlike you or many others on this board, I know what kind of work it takes to turn schools around. Our school is an example that people come from the state and other agencies to watch how we've done what we've done. I think one of the factors that should be looked at is student test scores, but not the only factor. But please don't spout off about teachers unions and what methods they are willing to change or adopt when you have no idea.
Are we going to give Teachers back COMPLETE CONTROL of their classrooms? I think it is stupid and wrong to say COOK THIS THIS WAY then complain it is bad. If you offer them no room to be innovative and creative and force them into TEMPLATE TEACHING well . . .it ain't the teacher. . .IT IS A TEMPLATE!! One Size DOES NOT fit all Rocket River
My children were in public schools and you can see I thought they were doing extremely well, which they were by the dummied down, teach for Taks standards. It wasn't until I put them into private schools that I learned how far behind they actually were. It was a shock to my system that my straight A, Taks commended, GT classes, and honor society children were way behind where kids should be at their ages. I am complaining about the system and slamming the efforts to improve it because they are wrong. The answer is not to put more pressure on all involved, making Taks testing everyones only focus, as now teachers careers, students ability to navigate through school, and Admins careers will all revolve around one test. Do you think they are now going to start a regular curriculum with critical thinking? or just start teaching more for the test? By these standards you are not guaging how well a teacher teaches, but instead measuring how good they are at spending an entire year preparing a kid for a single test. Everyone loses. The teachers cannot teach anymore and our children fall further behind. I never said the answer is for everyone to send their children to private schools. It is a much better option than what the public schools offer right now, though. It pisses me off that I pay school taxes for a school that is well below what should be anyones standards and have to spend tons more to send my children to a school where they can actually learn. I will tell you one thing, though. Without a standardized test that everyone involved with is under immense pressure for, a privite school has much more accountability than any public school ever will. We literally pay the private schools bills by sending our children there and if they are not up to standards and everyone changes to another school they cease to exist. That is what is broken in the public schools. No matter what happens the school still gets paid. They came up with this test as their big answer and only made it worse. Now, even the teachers and Admins who actually care, are not allowed to do their job. They must teach for the test to appease the politicians.
I seriously doubt the best of the GT kids from public school are "way behind" the kids from private school. Which public school district were you in and what private school you said is much better? How do you make the comparison? I know students from public high schools attending or graduated from the best of colleges.
I agree with you we need accountablility and am for standardized testing to show results but I'm not sure how much something like the TAKS test teaches critical thinking. Since I don't have kids thinking back to my own experience while we had standardized tests they were never a focus of my education and in general I thought my education was good.
They are just testing for English and Math right? How hard could it be to teach kid basic Math and English up to high school? Why are so many schools failing so bad at this basic task?
Say what you will, but I have experienced it. I will go a step further and say that in the Gt classes very few were actually GT. In my daughters 8th grade, she was one of 3 to actually score high enough on the GT test to be classified GT. The rest of the kids in her classes were just the best of the rest. In my sons grade he was one of 4 to actually score high enough. When I enrolled these children into private school, they were both way behind. Also, nobody here is saying you cannot succeed in life if you go to a public school. The bright ones will always find a way to shine. Like I said my kids were way behind, but they are smart and caught on quick. The debate is about those who do not shine as bright in this area. They are the ones that will just be left behind for good. In regards to your friends who went/go to college that is wonderful. Here is a stat for you though. Over 90% of the kids who graduate from my daughters highschool graduate with a bachelors from college. They have no Taks test in this school. Here is another number for you. When looking at schools for my son we went to many schools. At a charter school which we did not enroll him in the numbers were staggerring. This school only went through the eigth grade. Its students who graduated from there went on to graduate highschool in that town at a 98% clip. Those in the public school through eigth grade were right at 70%. They had no Taks test at this school. So while there will always be successful coming from anywhere, you are much more likely to do so when you are properly prepared. That is something that cannot be argued. Name any public school with statistics even close to that. Those kind of numbers are more common in public/charter schools. They are more prepared and never run into that wall.
People expect teachers to be prison guards or anything but teachers. Yet their hands are also tied when it comes to any sort of discipline. These days, a teachers has to call a kid's parents 12 times before they can even send the student to detention etc. <script type="text/javascript" src="http://reason.tv/embed/video.php?id=60"></script> <script type="text/javascript" src="http://reason.tv/embed/video.php?id=777"></script>
You started out earlier saying the best GT kids can not compete with the private school kids. Now you are saying you are not, you are comparing kids who are not GT. All of your statistics are great except you forgot one thing: the students who go to private school are already in a selected group of high achieving students and have parents who cater to their learning. You can't compare that to most kids in public school. You have already agreed that kids from public school can do as well? Then there is no reason to slam the public school system. Are there problems? Yes. Should improvements be made? Yes. But to say public school is bad as a whole is not accurate.
Try a little reading comprehension. Re-read what you quoted me on and tell me how I am changing anything. My kids were 2 of the 7 in their combined grades who scored high enough to be classified GT and they were both way behind when they got to private school. Also, private schools are not for high achieving students. They are for anyone. There are some with testing to get into, but at most the test are just for placement purposes. They do require money to get into, as opposed to the public schooling. I do agree that if a parent is willing to pay the money to get their children better schooling then the odds are the parents do care about their education. There are many parents who care just as much, if not more in the public schooling system too, though. I did say that the smarter kids can adjust and catch up, because they are smart enough to do so. Is that any way to excuse them not being taught right as they are growing, instead of putting them behind the learning curve, though? This is what causes many of them to give up on schooling. If your defense of the public school system is the smart ones can catch up later because they are not completely left behind, then that says volumes in itself. Also, what about the kids who cannot catch up because of their learning abilities? You are okay with leaving them behind in life, but saying we got them to pass the TAKS test, so they should be okay? They do not deserve the chance to be able to go on and have a legit shot at getting a degree? To say the public school system as a whole is bad is 100% accurate. Even those that agree with TAKS testing agree with that.
