im not upset with francis, he is one of my favorite players. All i'm trying to say is that why should we hate dream when we have taken on players the exact same way? ------------------ http://www.democrats.com [This message has been edited by dc rock (edited January 31, 2001).]
I think you just got TheFreak's argument. ------------------ "No Brain Grant, no trade." -- Typos are a b**** as ZRB is holding Rocket trades hostage while he seeks a brain. Conspiracy theorists say this would explain why Hakeem has yet to be traded...
I really dont understand what all the fuss is about Hakeem anyways. I mean, Im not going out on a limb here when I say that the general consensus of this BBS is that we dont want Hakeem in the lineup much anymore anyways. So what if he wants to play for another team. Let the man be. There is no need to feel betrayed. He hasnt insulted the Rockets in any way. He hasnt pulled a Scottie Pippen by publicly scrutinizing his teamates or by garnering a huge contract to only suck. Hakeem is paid a well deserved $16 million dollars. He has waited for it. Now, when he says he wants to be traded he is putting us in a GOOD position. It gives us the option of possibly getting something of value in return, or just waiting it out and being where we were going to be anyway. Suppose he was just content doing nothing on the bench. We wouldnt even have the option to look for something in return. In the end, Hakeem will have been the one to make Houston basketball what it is today, to give it a history no other professional franchise in the city of Houston has---one that includes two championships. To get all pissed off now just because Hakeem says he wants to go, when, in reality, most people here also want him to go so the young guys can start to gain some chemistry on their own, makes no sense. Everyone should just chill out and hope the CD and others in the Rockets organization make the best of the situation. If all else fails, we'll be in the same situation we were in before. ------------------
These mental tricks of yours are hurting my head Doc! I see what is being said though, but what Freak is saying is that we're being hypocrites for not being upset at Francis, Charles and company, but we're upset with Dream. The thing is I'm a ROCKETS fan, I'm not a Grizzlies fan or a Phoenix fan. Comparing Charles and Francis to Dream isn't going to help because we aren't going to have the same emotions with those teams. I don't mind if those fans don't like Francis or Charles as long as they don't throw crap at them. But I do care what Dream is doing because what he is doing is hurting the team. ------------------ Dream a deadly Dream. . . [This message has been edited by RocksMillenium (edited January 31, 2001).]
Damn Straight JAYZ. Everyone read what JZ said. I agree. Just chill. Dream isn't in our plans next year, and we probably won't win the championship now. Let him be. I think the more we involve him, the more time lost on letting the team progress. It might be better in the short run to have dream, but it's ONE FREAKIN YEAR, NOT EVEN ONE YEAR. Let him go. I'll always love the rockets and always love dream. Stop the madness. ------------------ When I die, I want to be reincarnated as that chair in the Britney Spears video.
I,too, have no ill will against Hakeem. Most of the posts before the season started were screaming for Dream to retire in no uncertain terms. I personally feel that Rudy made up his mind before the season started that Dream would not play a significant role this year. When Dream started turning in quality minutes, Rudy did not alter his plans, because that is the way Rudy operates. Until these last couple of games, Hakeem got no crunch time minutes in the 4th quarter. He thinks he can contribute and I do too. Rudy doesn't want to use him, so let him go somewhere else. Earlier posts have talked about how Phoenix doesn't want to take their gang of forwards into the playoffs. I would trade all our forwards for all Phoenix' forwards. Would we be a contender? I don't think so. We would still have a hole in the center. I hope Hakeem gets to play for a contender. I hope we can get something for him. If we don't, what have we lost? The way he is used, he sure isn't going to help that much. If Rudy had Dream in at the end of games and he was d'ing up and really helping, it would be a different situation. Dream probably wouldn't even want to leave. But he is not being used anyway, so why do some of you guys care so much if he leaves? ------------------
This is The Rockets' fault. Rudy should have used Hakeem to the best of his ability this season. He should have given him good minutes, especially in the fourth quarter. I completely understand why Dream is unhappy. How would you feel is you were stuck with a bunch of jumpshooters going nowhere this season? Hakeem wants to COMPETE. He wants to play competitive basketball, IN THE PLAYOFFS. This Rocket team will not utilize him in any way, Did anyone see Mobley wave off Hakeem is the post yesterday, only to pass to the offensively-challenged Shandon Anderson as he was standing 5 feet behind the arc? Rudy has gone completely away from the post offense. Hakeem has rightly complained to Rudy about this. The Rockets can NOT win in the west if all they do is shoot fadeaway jumpers. Hakeem has pointed this out, but nothing has been done to fix it. So he wants out. He wants to play on a team that is going to the playoffs. He doesn't want to finish his career on a .500 team, after being in the playoffs for 15 out of 16 previous years. Hakeem has done nothing to insult the organization or the city. He is the reason the Rockets are still in Houston. HE IS THE ONLY REASON ROCKET FANS HAVE BRAGGING RIGHTS! Say what you want, but he IS the franchise player that carried the team to two back-to-back titles. Shaq had Kobe. Robinson had Duncan. Michael had Pippen. Hakeem had...? Maxwell??? Okay, he had Clyde the next year, but that is not the point. Look, I am also upset that he is leaving. I don't want him to go. I just think that he has earned the right to complain. He has not DEMANDED a trade. He has said that he would welcome it. THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE. The Rockets are not in a tight position where they HAVE to trade him, like they were with Pippen. And lets face it, he is NOT hurting the team, BECAUSE THIS TEAM IS GOING NOWHERE THIS YEAR!!!!!!!!! Last night's game proved that. You have NO right to complain, because he has done EVERYTHING for this franchise. Freak is right. This is no worse than what Steve and the beloved Charles Barkley did. Hakeem has been a gentleman about all this. He has TRIED to fit in this year, unlike Pippen. It just hasn't worked out. Rudy has not used him properly. That's that. I am disappointed Hakeem will likely not end this season as a Rocket, but I completely understand how he must feel, to be benched behind the likes of Kenny Thomas in the fourth quarter, after having such an amazing career. To the few who agree with me, good for you. I'm glad that some people appreciate what Hakeem has done for a once-mediocre franchise. ------------------ "Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning how to put food on their family while being put to death." [This message has been edited by ZRB (edited January 31, 2001).]
Dream's business is about Dream. Not the Rockets! Damn, I thought Dream was about honor, probably one of the extreme few who had this honor code. His character has become utter bullsheet! A man's greatness is measured by his promise, his freakin word man! I have no problem with Dream playing in Miami. Go ahead, have fun in the sun. But finish your damn contract!!! The man is being paid more than well and he signed a contract to perform his services until the end of the season. There is a right way to get out of Dodge, and that is hakeem saying" O.K. I will perform to the best of my abilities to get this team where it needs to go, after the season my goal will be to go to Miami". Then I will know hakeem as having honor in his actions. What Hakeem use to represent far differs from how I see him now. I was so excited to get his autograph 8 years ago. Now I don't know whether to tear it up or wipe my ass with it!! ------------------ Sometimes you gotta do the next best thing!
A rationalist doesn't care who you're a fan of since the crime is the crime and is not lessened by the fact the crime is against your team. To a rationalist you are a hypocrite because you will not condone one traitor's actions and want him off the team, yet you are willing to accept with open arms the other traitors because it makes your team better. The rationalist says, a murderer is a murderer regardless of who he murdered. You, being a homer, think that because it is your team, and it happened to one of the legends of your team, it magnifies the damage. You don't care about what happened to Vancouver or Phoenix, because they aren't your team, despite the fact that all of them are violations of "trust" and betrayals. It was your family that was violated! The homer says a murderer is a murderer, but a cop-killer is the worst kind of murderer. I still say neither is wrong... a rabid fan has to be a hypocrite or he isn't quite so rabid... ------------------ "No Brain Grant, no trade." -- Typos are a b**** as ZRB is holding Rocket trades hostage while he seeks a brain. Conspiracy theorists say this would explain why Hakeem has yet to be traded... [This message has been edited by Dr of Dunk (edited January 31, 2001).]
Francis tld Vancouver he did not want to play there BEFORE they drafted him, they did it anyway so he forced a trade. If Hakeem didn't want to play for the Rockets this year, he should have signed a shoter contract. ------------------ Don't come in Bullard's house!
But if Hakeem is traded, the Rockets will get something in return. That is effectively honoring his contract. If he is released, it will probably be when the Rockets are out of playoff contention. If that is the case, then I would say his contract has been honored. RoxRan, don't hate the man for what is going on. You can hate WHAT HE HAS DONE, but you don't have to hate HIM. He has done so much for the team. No one is perfect. They aren't always going to act like YOU want them to. Hakeem is still a legend, and nothing can change what he has done for the Rockets. You would be insane to screw up that autograph. ------------------ "Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning how to put food on their family while being put to death."
well hell let's do an hakeem for garnett or an hakeem for webber straight out right now... heck if he wants to go then we can't deny the inevitable. as long as the trade doese give us something REALLY Good then i'm all for it because flat out........ I'M JUST TIRED OF ALL THIS BS. To think that he said it would have been disrespectful for the rockets to trade his ass for christie and drafts and willis two years ago..... honestly that is just sick SICK I SAY ------------------ "Wahooo"-homer I'm not only a fan but I'm also the bartender at clutchcity chat For the last time I'm not Tybrave!!!!!
You guys crack me up. Everyone wanted Dream to quit last year. Now we don't want him to play some where else. The man has sat on the bench while 1) Watching Cat jack up all kinds of shots 2) Bullard gets his 4th quarter time 3) ISO left, ISO right, brick 4) Getting wave out of the post 5) Getting ignored on offense During crucial stretches Matt "No defense" Bullard is in the game instead of Hakeem. You can ask Dudley, Perdue, Polyniece, Ostertag, Big Country or any other stiff to stay out of the way, rebound and set picks. Even if he is a shell of his former self, doesn't Hakeem have the skills to do more? How many ISOs does Cuttino need to develop? Now we slander the man, mock him and belittle his accomplishments. I say waive him. Half these poster that are so offended are the same ones that wanted him to retire 2 years ago. ------------------ Respect Hakeem's legacy. A championship in the hand is worth two in the bush!! [This message has been edited by 3Rings (edited January 31, 2001).]
So very true. Post of the year. ------------------ "Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning how to put food on their family while being put to death."
I am a homer. To me the rest of the NBA exists for three reasons : 1) To lose to the Rockets 2) To give us good players for peanut vendors 3) To amuse me when the Rockets aren't playing Everything else is irrelevant. Regarding the NBA, the only way I judge good or bad is whether it is good for the Rockets or bad. As it concerns Hakeem, he has been the cornerstone of the Franchise for over a decade, he has brought the city two pretty banners to hang in the rafters, not to mention the countless other memories. Now, he is using his time here to audition for another team. I feel hurt and betrayed, I can't help it. Hakeem can't do what he used to - he labors up and down the court, if he plays over 35 minutes his knees will swell to the size of grapefruits, he is no longer an intimidator in the post and he doesn't mesh with the offense. He's just as liable to have a good shooting night as he is to go 1-10 with several turnovers. Now, I as a faithful supporter of the Rockets feel betrayed. This was not just some outsider who never really fit here, this was family. And for those of you who blame Rudy - Rudy's job is to win games, his duty is to the team, not one single player. No one player has EVER been bigger than the team he plays on and no one player EVER will. Charles Barkley once said something to the effect that basketball owed him nothing, that in fact he owed his entire life to basketball. He was right. ------------------ The Rockets will be the NBA champions. Believe. [This message has been edited by Puedlfor (edited January 31, 2001).]
Dr of Dunk, You have been pointing out the differences between the Rationalists and the Rabid Fans in this thread and noticed that those you consider to be true Rationalists are not completely rational. Also the Rabid Fans are not completely Rabid Fans. Isn't the enforcement of an existing contract something that a Rational person would hew to? Why would a Rabid Fan be in favor of upholding an existing contract which is more in line with rational (unemotional) thinking? Mango ------------------ [This message has been edited by Mango (edited January 31, 2001).]
Seriously, my autograph is still safe,... but the thing that bothers me so much is that Dream is essentially giving up on the team when the team still needs him. Heck I think most of us want Dream to stick around just till the end of the season. Let's give him a proper sendoff and wish him luck in his new hobby. Yes, Dream's role is not exactly to his liking, but Dream must acknowledge his current situation and not expect too much. He is suppose to be a leader by example for the youngters and what message is his act sending? I am sorry if my emotion got to me a bit, but Hakeem is forever linked to the Rockets (no matter what he does). This is a very touchy, emotional situation and he is not making the transition easy by his public vocalization in making it known his goal is to be in another city before the final part of the season has hardly started. I don't think it's too much for Dream to wait after the season before heading to Miami. ------------------ Sometimes you gotta do the next best thing!
I have to agree with the Freak on the Hakeem issue.. and also, could anybody tell me why Vancuver would trade SAR,, ? he's unhappy or something?, ------------------ against all odds
so, am I allowed to repeat myself: If we get Reef, would you consider a sign-n-trade this summer for Webber? In a heartbeat! SAR is the best Webber bait in the league. Talk about us being a front-runner for my savior--WEBBER!!!!
