Are we really at the point with Morey here where we suggest that he's already better than Hunsicker was? :grin: I sure Morey has a ton of success here...and time will tell how it all works out...but geez, let's not coronate him after having only gotten out of the first round once.
Interesting take. I think, beyond coronation, Houston sports fans have him in Olympian status because their armchair-GM minds are enthralled with the transactions he continues to make and the rosters he continues to assemble. It's as if your fantasy-team wet dream were played out in real life, with the notable exception of actual success.
In Morey's 3 years here, we've had the #1 and #2 highest winning totals since 1997(year with Barkley, Hakeem, and Drexler). DESPITE our star players becoming more and more injured each year. We've managed to win 42 games without T-Mac or Yao last year, while we only managed to win 34 games with Yao/T-Mac playing in 60% of our games before Morey came on board. Unless you have proof that Morey continuously broke T-Mac's back and secretly stepped on Yao's foot to break it, I don't see where he hasn't had success.
doh! you are correct, sir! I should have typed, "actual playoff success," because that is what was in my sad head. and I did not intend to slam Morey--I think he's absolutely fantastic. thanks for the correction.
Agree, Hunsicker has taken 2 teams to the Series within the last 5 years and while I LOVE DMorey he is nowhere near Hunsicker in my book TO THIS POINT. Now before I get killed for saying that remember in 2004 when we got to the NLCS, Andy P. was a HUGE acquisition and was never truly a factor. In 2005 Bags was history and again success so injuries should not part of the equation as both have suffered huge losses during their prime playoff runs.
Gerry is not the GM of the Rays, he's a consultant. Saying he's taken two teams to the series would be like saying Tal Smith has taken a team to the series. Hell Tim Purpura took a team to the WS!
He's actually senior VP of baseball operations. But yes, that is like Tal Smith's position, but for Tampa Bay. Different sport, but no one doubts Bill Parcells has had an impact on the Miami Dolphins as VP of football operations.
The reality is Gerry is more then JUST a consultant in Tampa. He was brought in to mentor their young GM into his position for a reason. Funny how two years after he left the Stros, Tampa was in the series and Houston was 73-89. Tal never mentored Gerry and truth be told the Stros have won in spite of him, the end results are being felt now.
Look, I'm not trying to demean what Gerry did for the Astros. He was a good GM here and would obviously be better than what they have. But you are kidding yourself if you think he has much power in Tampa. Andrew Friedman is running that ship. Hunsicker gives him ideas and bounces things off of him, but the reason the Rays went through the roof and finally got good is that their draft picks came together for them. Hunsicker had very, very little to do with that.
It's not so much where the team has gone, but how much a GM improved the team. If we're just going by playoff success, Danny Ferry >>>>>> Morey and it's not even close. So would you switch Morey with Ferry? A GM's job is to improve the team with what he works with. He's not a miracle worker. Morey made competitive teams when we had no business being competitive. The fact that the Rockets never had the #1 pick to get Lebron or Dwight Howard shouldn't be used as a negative against his tenure. As for Hunsicker, while I do think he's arguably the best GM in Houston sports history(Rockets success under Rudy was more of a great coaching philosophy change), he didn't really bat nearly at the clip that Morey is doing. He has his strengths and weaknesses. His "prospects for stars" trades worked out like a charm. And his FA signings were generally good. But he's struck out when giving away players. Caminiti/Finley for Bell was a bust to say the least. As were the packages we got for Wagner and Hampton. From a farm perspective, it's pretty amazing that with all the incredible arms the Astros have had over the years, only Oswalt became a star. Berkman was the only position player to really stuck as a major bat. Although to be fair the Astros leaned towards pitchers in general in the farm. To me, Hunsicker is like Ray Allen: Consistently great for a number of years. While Morey's more like Durant, young guy that oozes with potential but haven't really made it big on a team level yet.
I think Morey has made a lot of good moves and they have potential, but he hasn't really improved the team in terms of results. Here's the team's wins from getting Yao Ming: 2003: 43 2004: 45 2005: 51 2006: 34 2007: 52 (hired Morey / Adelman) 2008: 55 2009: 53 2010: 42 They've won a couple of extra games, but that's about it. Certainly, they've had injuries (they also had them with the prior regime) and they got younger - so they definitely have potential going forward. But they really have been kind of going in circles since 2005 or so.
Hmm, I disagree. The team 2 years ago was a legitimate title contender until Yao got hurt. That was the first time in a long time the Rockets got passed the first round. This year they missed the playoffs, but there is definite progress in terms of building a team.
I pointed this out earlier, but I guess it bears repeating. 2006: Yao played 57 games. T-Mac played 47 games. The Rockets won 34 games. 2010: Yao played 0 games. T-Mac played 0 games. The Rockets won 42 games. If you think we're running in circles, then you're saying that Morey's arrival to the Rockets caused Yao and T-Mac to be injured. That by bringing in better role players, Morey gave the finger to Yao and T-Mac to make them more injury-prone and sucking. In essence, I'm saying that Correlation does not imply causation.
Sure, but you're just looking at two bad anomoly seasons. You could also say that in 2005, Yao & T-Mac played 158 games and they won 51. In 2007, Yao & T-Mac played 119 games and they won 52. In 2009, they played 112 games and won 53. So that trend of winning more with them playing less was already in place prior to Morey's arrival. Not at all. Of course they improved their role players. But you could also say they learned to play with injured/absent superstars and had already been getting better prior to Morey's arrival.
I know it's not popular, but I think the playoff series win was a lucky draw as much as anything else. They beat a very young Portland team that had no playoff experience whatsoever. The prior Rockets teams were facing playoff experienced coaches & teams like Utah and Dallas. If those earlier teams team got to face Portland instead, I think they win those series too - though that is all just speculation on my part. I'd also argue that in the Rockets vs. Lakers series, the Rockets actually played better without Yao. I'm not sure they take that series to 7 playing their conservative half-court style. I think previous versions of the Rockets teams like 2005 were better than last year's, though that was in large part due to a healthy T-Mac (not Morey's fault). I'm not saying Morey's not good - the role players have certainly upgraded and they've had major injuries to stars. But in terms of actual on-the-court results, the Rockets haven't actually improved at all over the last 5 or 6 years.
The reason I use those two seasons is BECAUSE they were seasons where our stars missed the most games. Hence it makes a clear comparison of our surrounding cast to the T-Mac and Yao. In 2006, the Rockets were abysmal without T-Mac. Yao + supporting cast = lottery. In 2009, Yao + supporting cast = 2nd round in playoffs. In 2010, Supporting cast alone = 42 wins. If you don't see the incredible improvement in overall talent outside Yao/T-Mac, then we can only agree to disagree. Umm, Morey arrived in 2007. Other than Chuck Hayes and Deke, who else's still on the roster? I don't see Scola, Landry, Artest, Martin, Ariza, Hill, Brooks, Lowry, Battier on the roster before Morey's arrival.
no argument here. again, the comment about lack of playoff success was in no way intended to be an indictment of Morey's still-young tenure. Completely agree with your Ray Allen/Kevin Durant analogy, btw.
