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[FX] “Shogun” Mini-Series

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by GRENDEL, Nov 2, 2023.

  1. Juxtaposed Jolt

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    As a person who didn't read the book, it's too early to label her character. Which is interesting, given that we know who Torunaga is, Blackthorne, Ishido and the other 4 members of the council, etc.

    I thought the storytelling would be crowded with, essentially, 3 protagonists, but all 3 are compelling.

    Torunaga doesn't exactly want to be Shogun, but it's either be that or be literally killed by Ishido. Dude is clearly cunning and patient, and like the falcon at the start of episode 1, is willing to wait for the right time. He'll use Blackthorne for his own gains, seemingly.

    Blackthorne wants to stop the Portuguese from installing more influence in Japan and is under specific orders. Like Torunaga though, there's the issue of self-preservation - you can't continue your mission and see your goals be realized, if you're dead. As such, it seems like he's going to figure out a way to use Torunaga as much as Torunaga will use Blackthorne.

    As obvious as this sounds, both male protagonists want to stay alive.

    Which brings me to this:

    As far as exposition goes, we know Torunaga and Blackthorne - 2 ouf of the 3 protagonists.

    However, Mariko's character is still really unclear. All we know is that she's Catholic due to some event in the past, she is fluent in Portuguese and Japanese, and as far as trailers go, she uses both short daggers (carved up some dude in close range) and a long naginata (staff thingy with a blade at the end).

    At series start, maybe she's adept with both, one or none of these weapons. Maybe she learns how to wield weapons as the episodes progress. It's clear that Torunaga sees her as a loyal ally, as far as translations go and being in important meetings. Maybe there will be an extension of loyalty to Mariko in that she can train in weaponry too.

    All this is to say, this show is looking like a masterpiece. The acting, the cinematography, the pacing, the special effects. Everyone should watch this show.
     
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  2. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    Mariko isn’t just an ally of Toronaga she is pledged vassal to him. She is the daughter and law of his most trusted general and he can order her to translate or to kill herself as needed. Her husband and her father in law can do the same but since Toronaga is their liege lord they are subject to his decisions and he can just as easily order them to kill themselves too.

    Also the birds of prey is a metaphor that is used throughout the story. Without giving spoilers will leave it at that.
     
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  3. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    Also while Mariko isn’t a samurai as in a warrior she is of the samurai caste and in feudal Japan ranks higher than peasants.

    Also it’s brought up several times that Toronaga is “Minowara”. That is one of the three traditional family’s that not only held the title Shogun but also were related to the imperial family.

    To note the figure called “Taiko” was Toyotomo Hideyoshi who was a warlord who controlled Japan just prior to the events of Shogun. He was a peasant so was unable to take the title Shogun even though he wielded power on par to Shogun.
     
  4. VanityHalfBlack

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    The score/music is one of my fav parts about this show. It sounds like it was conducted by Trent Reznor/Mike Shinoda
     
  5. Xerobull

    Xerobull You son of a b!tch! I'm in!

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    !!!!

    Ok, I just jumped to the top of my ‘must watch’ list.
     
  6. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    Some more on the term “samurai” as I think there is confusion about what it means and its use.

    Samurai is a title and a hereditary caste. Samurai doesn’t mean “warrior” as the word for that is “Bushi” in Japanese. So there can be people who are warriors including using Katanas but not samurai.

    During the dark decades of Japan social order was in flux so there were peasants
    Like Toyotomo Hideyoshi who gained great power and even carried two swords. Ironically when Hideyoshi gained power one of the things he did was to clamp down on peasants carrying swords.
     
  7. tehG l i d e

    tehG l i d e Member

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    It's scored by Reznor's longtime partner and right-hand man Atticus Ross. Together they've done most of David Fincher's movie scores the last couple of decades. I'm a big fan.
     
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  8. VanityHalfBlack

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    Oh hell yeah, I knew I recognized some of the musical bits. That’s awesome!!
     
  9. Buck Turgidson

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  10. Xerobull

    Xerobull You son of a b!tch! I'm in!

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  11. Xerobull

    Xerobull You son of a b!tch! I'm in!

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    Watched Ep 2 as well last night. Fantastic show. I've never read the book, barely remember the series so I have no preconceived notions and my age of expansion history knowledge is limited to Europe/Americas so I had no idea the Portuguese were so far to the East in 1600. Acting is amazing, music is amazing, story is great, pacing is good with a good amount of action sprinkled in. Love it.
     
  12. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    By the time of the events of Shogun the Portuguese were in Asia for more than 100 years. They had well established colonies in Goa, Macau and Malacca. This is referred to in shogun including the use of Japanese troops in service of the Portuguese.

    The Treaty of Tordesillas with the Pope dividing the World between Portugal and Spain was signed a few years before the Shogun story.
     
  13. DreamShook

    DreamShook Member

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    Episode 1 was really good. I hate that i have to read the captions. I dont have time to focus on this show exclusively some times.

    But I am all in.
     
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  14. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Taiwan Island was called Formosa..... which should be Portuguese as well.

     
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  15. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    Watched episode 3 last night and overall pretty good. The main thing I like about the show is that it looks great. The sets and the costumes look great. The acting is a mixed bag. Sanada is very good and so is the actor portraying Mariko. They are required to play very restrained with expressing a lot with a very limited expression and actions. Yabushige as a character is very interesting as he's the most conniving. I think the actor is doing OK and look forward to seeing him. I'm not so impressed with the Cosmo Jarvis as Blackthorne. He either seems too wooden or is forcing things. So far I actually think Richard Chamberlain in the 1980 series did a better job. Not won ever yet either with the portrayal of Rodrigues, the Portugese pilot, Jon Rys-Davies (the same guy who played Gimili in LOTR and Sallah in the Indiana Jones movies nailed it.

    While Episode 3 is generally sticking with the overall storyline of the book there were a a few minor changes that I think affected the nature of the characters.
    When they are leaving Osaka Castle in the book Blackthorne does see Toranage switch places with lady Kirri in the litter. In the book though it's not one of Ishido's henchman that tries to stop them but Ishido himself. Instead of accusing the man trying to look into the litter of being a perv Blackthorne pretends he's gone mad and does a crazy jig leading the troop out of the castle gate. It's subtle but the point was that Blackthorne didn't want to make it seem like he meant to insult Ishido.

    At the battle on the dock Buntaro does stay behind. The moment he's standing alone on the dock he prepares to commit Sepuku rather than be captured by Ishido's troops. He welcomes death and feels he is about to die both with glory for doing so defending his lord but also because he has an abusive relationship with Mariko and feels that she has dishonored him for previous actions and while a dutiful wife actually hates him. This will play a role later on in the story. Blackthorne not understanding what is happening tries to get them to save Buntaro as in episode 3 and Toranaga orders Buntaro to instead of killing himself fight his way out. Buntaro resents this and feels that Blackthorne is interfering in his life.

    Toranaga does go on board the Black Ship and agrees to turn over Blackthorne to the Portugese. Rodrigues, invites Blackthorne to dinner. Blackthorne that Blackthorne has been eating Japanese food (rice and fish) for a month now and will gorges himself on western food to the point of passing out which disgust the Japanese, a running theme in the book is how the Japanese don't eat meat because of Buddhist beliefs. Rodrigues overhears that Toranaga is going to trade Blackthorne and has Blackthorne thrown overboard, knowing this will wake him up and that he is a strong enough swimmer to get back to the galley saving him. Blackthorne does further save himself by running the galley close to the black ship when they run the blockade. While in the show he does spare Blackthorne by not running the galley into rocks the difference in the book version is it goes deeper into differences between Japanese and Western culture but also that it shows how much feeling Rodrigues has for Blackthorne as a fellow pilot and even a friend.
     
  16. VanityHalfBlack

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    Best show of 2024. That ending of episode 3 was awesome
     
  17. clos4life

    clos4life Member

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    Interesting differences. Please do go on in future episodes pointing differences between the show and the book, enjoyable to read.
     
  18. ROXTXIA

    ROXTXIA Contributing Member

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    I haven't seen Episodes 2 and 3 yet, but I remember from the book, Mariko was turned upside-down when Blackthorne brought up the Treaty of Tordesillas, and Toronaga couldn't help but notice her reaction. Mariko had turned to Catholicism and even learned Portuguese from the Jesuits and to learn that the Holy Pope had divided the world between Portugal and Spain was huge.

    And the Portuguese, when Toronaga mentioned his new knowledge to them, were put in a veeeeeeeeeery bad spot. The Pilot of the Black Ship wanted to withhold an answer. The priests knew this would be disastrous because Toronaga one way or another would ferret out the truth.

    I love that book, goddammit.
     
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  19. Jontro

    Jontro Member

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    is fx on netflix?
     
  20. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    FX and Hulu all belongs to Disney so it seems... just like ESPN and Marvel Universe.
     

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