[Formal Education] Your Thoughts?

I never said that and I think college can be a good thing. But it should be something worth your time and money (especially that) and you should have a plan, not just going in and expecting to make six figures because you have a degree.

And I'm open to the idea I could be wrong. As it is, I'm not even remotely close to a millionaire, so perhaps I'm not the right person to listen to (though alternatively, I'm still pretty young and have learned from my mistakes and in turn am sharing that with the world).

My general message has been that college can be useful and is even necessary in some disciplines but is overrated in many regards, both by employers and it's ability (at a high financial cost) to mold people into being ready for the real world. Some colleges, particularly small ones, feel like a high school setting (from what I've seen).

 

I think we all need some formal education as kids to get us started. The way in which it is currently run is open to question but it's necessary.

And as I said, if you go to college, just in my humble opinion (I don't know everything), at least go for something you like and something that can provide you a backup plan if nothing else. I'm preaching to the choir to some degree here, but don't go for the dumb reasons like partying, frats, sex, sports, etc... with no plan in mind and an easy major that won't land you anywhere without ambition and/or luck. I think we should go in with a plan and like I said, it doesn't have to happen at age 18 fresh out of high school, especially if you aren't ready.

Figure out what you want to do, develop a plan and stay focused. Or, on the other hand, realize that college may not be for you and go about trying to figure out what is best for you, whether that means going the entrepreneur route, developing a trade or whatever.

That said, I realize each person and situation is different and it's just my opinion.

 

(continued from my last post)

And as I said, technology has made it possible to disperse info everywhere instantly, as now we can get the latest news at our fingertips every second thanks to our cell phones. Compare that to 25 years ago, when it was inconceivable that newspapers would be going the way of the dinosaur.

The immense dispersement of info doesn't mean that formal education, most specifically college, is completely unnecessary because as you, YallMean, even said there are concentrations that need guidance from an expert and are truly helpful in molding students into what they need to be to become professionals. But not everyone goes to challenge themselves. Many simply go to get a degree with no plan in mind. And that is becoming an ever increasingly expensive mistake to make as the cost of attendance (and debt that arises from that) has skyrocketed, good paying jobs are more scarce and some employers are starting to see through the illusion that going to college makes you more capable of doing a job than someone who didn't.

I know I personally went to just get a degree because everyone around me told me to, possessing virtually no plan and waiting for school to hurry up and be over and it set me back greatly. Most of the curriculum I went through in my major was easily readable on my own without paying anything in tuition. Yeah, the professors could highlight a few things in the books for class but was that really worth thousands of dollars? Because of the advancement in technology, I can find literature on experts in that field for free, for the price of their books or attending their lectures, etc... Plus now, as I got out of school and actually began to mature some, there are really some fields I'd like to study (I have three in mind) but can't at the moment because I have to work so much, which is why I bring up how we pressure kids to go into school before they have a plan or learn what they're passionate about.

That said, it still is what it is and employers expect to see at least a Bachelors for consideration so in that sense college is necessary but not as much in how it actually prepares you, at least in some cases.

And lastly, one point you may have missed from me earlier, not everyone can have a high paying office job. There is actually a need for those doing stuff like manual labor and some are just better at that anyways, which is why they should pursue it over fields that require book-smarts, which can only be developed so much after a young age.

 

Well, I did plenty of extra curricular activities, I even joined a fraternity. It wasn't merely about the schooling and as a matter of fact I felt the seemingly pointless classes I was taking were getting in the way of me establishing my career. I wanted to spend my time building contacts, getting training for my field (which involved ZERO math or science beyond conventional, everyday ways) and making money. I could have gotten experience in my field without the excess fat of what I felt were boring and pointless classes.

That last point goes back to how some kids don't know what they want to do in life and thus may be better off starting their post-high school life working and thinking about their future.

It'd be the company's fault (though who am I to tell them what their hiring standards are) because they assume completion of formal education, except in some fields like nursing, engineering, etc... makes someone qualified to work for them and not other non-education factors. Besides, whatever happened to on-the-job training? It still happens, but not as much.

Also, times change. As I mentioned, newspapers going out of business seemed unthinkable as recently as the early 1990's but like the horse and buggy, stone brick ovens, and the telegraph it has becoming virtually obsolete thanks to changes in society (including easier travel) and technology. The same is starting to become true of higher ed, which hardly means it is completely outdated and useless. Again, we need teachers and experts for every field, some much more than others.

I think the op-ed is dead on and that's what I hope people get out of their schooling, not just merely writing down and regurgitating or worse yet just going through the motions because they heard all they need is a degree to get a job.

 

To re-direct this thread closer to where I originally intended (not necessarily about the pros and cons of college alone), does anyone think more bright and gifted students should be home-schooled with a legit academic tutor (not a parent with wild ideas) or sent to alternative school (which isn't necessarily for bad students)?

 

I've said more than once that my opinion is not end all be all and just the way I've experienced things. Plus you're right, using big words doesn't constitute intelligence, though I know you were using that to explain how you feel about my arguments.

I actually wouldn't mind being given less than an A in many cases even if I tried my hardest because at a certain point, just trying hard shouldn't be enough. There are coaches and players in the sports world that try their hardest yet they still grade out to an F for results in specific circumstances. Doesn't mean the effort wasn't there but sometimes effort isn't enough, just ask the Jacksonville Jaguars last year.

That's a solid way of putting it.

I'm more saying figure out if the car is worth fixing (time and money) and how far you need to go distance-wise. You may have been better off walking in the first place.

But I'm not sure the analogy fits. And if college is a car, then we have alternative means to get there such as by bus, train, bike, plane, helicopter, etc... LOL, I'm not sure where I'm going with this but I guess I'm saying that traditionally the best way to get where we want (educated, which would be the car) is now but one method of transportation we have to try and land at where we want. Sometimes the best way is for us to walk (i.e. self-education) but in modern times we've developed other transportation methods that can get us there quicker than a car ever could and we can use them in combinations. A plane can get you to places quicker than any other method, so maybe in that sense the car is good for short distance but can't take you as far and as quickly as a plane.

Maybe the internet is the plane, I don't know, I was just trying to follow his analogy, LOL. And yes, your head can stop spinning at any time now.

 

You're right. As I said in the OP, pacing can hurt students either because they need more time grasping certain subjects or grasp them with ease and would be better served moving on quicker. I'm not sure how that would be implemented but it's clear that not everyone of the same exact age is at the same level mentally and thus should be moving at the same pace.

I realize schools address this to some extent and occasionally, for example, you'll have students skip a grade or be held back but I think both because parents and students don't like the idea of a child academically falling behind his/her classmates and because teachers are pressured to pass students to improve the school's ratings, you get scenarios where as long as you put a solid effort in, you pass whether or not you actually grasped the subject matter or not. Then there are those who get it so easily they get bored and school becomes a chore. I say this because there have been subjects that have been like that for me in both ways.

It's just my opinion, I'm not an educator so perhaps it's better left to someone who is in the education field.