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First major collection of Bin Laden speeches released

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by tigermission1, Sep 20, 2005.

  1. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Contributing Member

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    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050920/ap_on_re_us/bin_laden_s_words

    Translation of Bin Laden Speeches Released

    By LAURA WIDES
    Associated Press Writer
    Tue Sep 20, 8:12 AM ET


    LOS ANGELES - The only way to defeat the enemy is to know the enemy. But in the case of Osama bin Laden, the public doesn't know enough, says the author of a new book on America's No. 1 nemesis.

    In "Osama Bin Laden: America's Enemy In His Own Words," San Diego civil rights attorney Randy Hamud tries to shed light on bin Laden by translating 20 of his statements and letters from 1994 to 2004.

    The book, released Monday, is the first comprehensive compilation of statements that are rarely presented in full by the English-language media. It's also the first of several works on bin Laden due out in the coming months.

    Hamud said the translations are critical to defeating bin Laden.

    "What I mean by defeat is the complete discrediting of his message," he wrote in the book.

    The third-generation Lebanese-American spent the past two years working with Arab scholars on the translations. His self-published book also offers an annotated biography of bin Laden and a history of Islam.

    It sparked concerns among academics — none of whom have seen the book — because it does not disclose the names of his collaborators and only says they are mostly Middle East immigrants who fear repercussions for their involvement.

    "In order for me to trust a text, I need to know who the translator is," said Khaled Abou El Fadl, a University of California, Los Angeles law professor.

    Abou El Fadl, who focuses on Islamic law, said he was surprised to learn about Hamud's book because the lawyer is not known as a specialist or scholar in Middle Eastern affairs or Islamic studies.

    "In my perspective bin Laden is a criminal," Abou El Fadl said. "Is there value in publishing the diaries of a serial killer? Yes there's a value, and there's a danger."

    Richard Dekmejian, a professor of political science at the University of Southern California, also said he would prefer such translations be done by recognized Arab scholars, then reviewed by peers.

    "It's very essential to do the translation correctly and reflect the context in which these things are said," Dekmejian said.

    Still, Dekmejian is interested in using Hamud's text in his classes as a way to understand bin Laden's anger at the West and how he gained traction among Muslims worldwide.

    Hamud defended his decision to withhold the names.

    "Sadly, in today's America, Muslim immigrants do not enjoy the freedom of speech that those of us who are native-born enjoy in discussing subjects like Mr. bin Laden, political Islam and the subject of terrorism," wrote Hamud, who has represented a number of Muslims and Arabs detained by federal authorities since Sept. 11, 2001.

    In November, Verso Books in England will publish "Messages to the World: The Statements of Osama bin Laden," a compilation 24 bin Laden speeches dating back to 1994. It was edited by Duke University political science professor Bruce Lawrence.

    In January, Simon & Schuster's Free Press will publish former CNN analyst Peter Bergen's "The Osama bin Laden I Know: An Oral History of the Making of a Global Terrorist," with interviews from people who know bin Laden.

    Lawrence, who had not seen Hamud's book, applauded his effort to make bin Laden's words more accessible. He said finding some of bin Laden's speeches, which are often blocked on Internet sites or reproduced only in snippets, involved major detective work.

    "It's an aspect of Osama bin Laden that has not only been neglected, it has been totally overlooked in the war on terror," Lawrence said.

    The speeches and letters show bin Laden's evolution from political attacks against corruption in the Saudi Arabian government to a declaration of war on the United States. There's also a critique of U.S. military contractors.

    "The Iraq war generates billions of dollars for big corporations, either munitions makers or those working reconstruction, such as Haliburton and its sister companies," bin Laden said in an April 15, 2004 address originally broadcast by Al-Jazeera in which he offered a truce with European nations that agreed not to attack Muslims.

    Throughout his speeches, bin Laden also returns to Israel's treatment of the Palestinians and what he calls the "Jewish enemy."

    According to Hamud's translation, bin Laden's anger at the West stems mostly from its support of the repressive Saudi Arabian regime and the idea of a Christian military occupying Muslim lands.

    "It is unconscionable to allow the country to become an American colony," bin Laden wrote in 1994 to King Fahd of Saudi Arabia, "for no other reason than to protect your throne and the oil resources."
     
  2. jo mama

    jo mama Contributing Member

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    bin laden had 3 main reasons for attacking the u.s.

    1) our continued support for israel.
    2) support of the saudi royal family.
    3) presence of u.s. troops in muslim holy lands.

    it has nothing to do with "hating our freedom" as the bush administration likes to say.

    "the terrorists hate our freedom"

    until we truly understand our enemy and their real motives we will never defeat them.
     
  3. AMS

    AMS Contributing Member

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    agreed,

    The "hating our freedom" crap is the biggest pile of BS that ive ever heard.

    well that and the WMD in iraq.
     
  4. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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  5. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Contributing Member

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    I'd rather we gave them to Woody Allen so he could finally do a sequel to "What's Up Tiger Lily?".

    :D
     
  6. deepblue

    deepblue Member

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    So do you know Bin Laden's real motives? or you are just taking his word for it?
     
  7. jo mama

    jo mama Contributing Member

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    both.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_tapes

    Terrorism expert Richard E. Rubenstein writes that Bin Laden has made clear in previous remarks that he is seeking to force a U.S. withdrawal from the Arabian peninsula.

    "We swore that America wouldn't live in security until we live it truly in Palestine. This showed the reality of America, which puts Israel's interest above its own people's interest. America won't get out of this crisis until it gets out of the Arabian Peninsula, and until it stops its support of Israel." -Osama bin Laden, October 2001

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/edicts.html

    Bin Laden issues a communiqué called "an Open Letter to King Fahd." He outlines major grievances against the Saudi regime: lack of commitment to Sunni Islam, inability to conduct viable defense policy, the squandering of public funds and oil money, and the dependence on non-Muslims for protection. He calls for a campaign of guerilla attacks to drive U.S. forces out of the Saudi Kingdom.

    Several months after being expelled from the Sudan, bin Laden issues his "Declaration of War Against the Americans Who Occupy the Land of the Two Holy Mosques." It reads, in part:

    "Muslims burn with anger at America. For its own good, America should leave [Saudi Arabia.] ... There is no more important duty than pushing the American enemy out of the holy land. ... The presence of the USA Crusader military forces on land, sea and air of the states of the Islamic Gulf is the greatest danger threatening the largest oil reserve in the world. The existence of these forces in the area will provoke the people of the country and induces aggression on their religion, feelings and prides and pushes them to take up armed struggle against the invaders occupying the land. ... Due to the imbalance of power between our armed forces and the enemy forces, a suitable means of fighting must be adopted, i.e. using fast-moving, light forces that work under complete secrecy. In other words, to initiate a guerrilla war, where the sons of the nation, and not the military forces, take part in it."

    In a CNN interview with Osama bin Laden, he says:

    "We declared jihad against the US government, because the US government is unjust, criminal and tyrannical. It has committed acts that are extremely unjust, hideous and criminal whether directly or through its support of the Israeli occupation."
     
  8. jo mama

    jo mama Contributing Member

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    if the terrorists really hate freedom then why havent they have bombed amsterdam and specifically the red light district?
     
  9. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Contributing Member

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    For the person who was asking about Bin LAden's motives, and whether we should take his word for it or not. The answer is, "YES"!

    Why you ask? From what I have observed, Bin Laden and his Al-Qaida right-hand man al-Zawahiri have been as blunt and direct about their 'motivations' for waging 'jihad' against the U.S., and have never made much of an attempt to conceal their 'cause'. In case you haven't noticed yet, Bin Laden is not really a 'PC' guy, he tells it like he see it, which is rather expected from a self-proclaimed terrorist.

    Now, I am not debating whether or not he 'has a point' or whether or not he's factual in what he said, but rather I am saying that he truly believes what he says about the US and he believes wholeheartedly in his cause. Otherwise, why the heck would this son of a multi-billionaire not retire and live like a playboy when the rest of his family males are? What possibly drives a man worth likely hundreds of millions of dollars to live in caves and draw the ire of a the 'Great Satan' (as he calls us) and purposely provokes a violent backlash from this superpower? He's not into sugar-coating his own beliefs, nor are many of his followers
     
  10. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Contributing Member

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    If you understand Arabic, sure! ;)
     
  11. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Isn't Bin Laden a MEMBER of the royal Family of Suadi?

    He is against his own Family?

    Rocket River
     
  12. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Contributing Member

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    Nope, he is a member of one of the wealthiest families in the world, known as the Bin Ladens. The Bin Ladens are the largest construction company in Saudi Arabia and one of the largest in the ME (if not the largest). The Bin Ladens actually have roots in Yemen, but through their enormous success in the construction business they have made themselves one of the most prominant families in the Kingdom. They mingle with the Royals all the time, they are very good friends, much like Bush and the oil people are 'tight'.

    So no, they are are not the actual Royals, but they are an elite family with elitist ties. In short, they are an enormous business empire.
     
  13. jo mama

    jo mama Contributing Member

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    are you talking about the bin laden family or the bush family? ;)
     
  14. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    I don't speak a second language
    so
    I ask this question

    How hard is it to translate from one language to the other
    Gracious = thank you
    seems pretty straight forward

    Rocket River
     
  15. AMS

    AMS Contributing Member

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    if your translating speech, not so bad

    if your translating text, its a biatch
     
  16. AMS

    AMS Contributing Member

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    and they both have deviant sons hated by the majority of the world ;)
     
  17. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Contributing Member

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    Agreed.

    I worked as a translator for a local company at one point, and I did extensive translation of documents in Arabic, Spanish, Farsi, Italian, Portoguese, and French.

    It's not easy, but if you are willing to be patient and learn, it's a rewarding experience.
     
  18. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Contributing Member

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    Its not straightforward at all because context is critical. Langauge is not just representative of common ideas but also encompasses cultural history so there are often words in one language with nothing comparable in another language or else there are subtle distinctions of meaning that are lost because the social structure of one culture is very different from the social structure of another. Translation is much more art than it is science. Its not just a matter of saying this is equivalent to that because its important to capture the subtle distinctions.
     
  19. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Contributing Member

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    Exactly, well put.
     
  20. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    how do the translator programs work around it . ..
    [like in the commercial where u speak english here but they
    hear japanese on the other end]

    Rocket River
    Language is most interesting
     

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