Fact vs. Fiction: Iraq

I love when americans tell me not to voice my opinion on a war supposedly fought to give another country's population the right I have to voice my opinion. see the irony?

 

What cracks me is up is when people expect me to figure out how the "terrorists" feel about an issue, then figure out how I need to feel. Is there a website I should consult? besides foxnews that is.

 

So we should take on the whole world to mold them into our image? Dude, that is a warped sense of reality.

That is defeatest talk and an admission that THIS war is B.S.

Are we changing it for the better?

So what makes you think that Americans can fix the problem if its been a problem "since the biginning of time?"

And this is better?

Iraq posed no direct threat to America. The money would have been better spent domestically helping Americans. We have enough of our own problems. We can't even get freaking water to the victims of Katrina.

9/11 happend on Bush's watch.
The failed emergency response to Katrina happened on Bush's watch.

Are we supposed to feel safe at home because we are fighting a war in Iraq? I don't.

So that's the best we can hope for now... that the Iraqi situation turns out as good as the Vietnam War?

 

true that it was corrupt, but since it is a democracy they could have voted them out. no it wouldnt have been far worse than communism. but you cant change history. why do vietnamese people here send money to their relatives in vietnam? is it because vietnam has become very prosperous? i dont think so. its doing better since its moving faster toward capitolism, but its not south korea. why are there so many vietnamese refugees living in america? because they were so happy to see that corrupt south government go down to the communists? i dont think so. they knew that life would suck for them under communism and would rather go to america so they can have achieve some financial and social freedoms.

 

are you hoping we that country in shambles or do you feel so strongly against us being there that it doesnt matter? also REALISTICALLY, you really think we're going to leave Iraq? even if HOWARD DEAN or TED KENNEDY or HILARY CLINTON became president next term? I think not. I think we always had an interest in Iraq, even during the Clinton days.
I know Bush is not popular, but you cant blame him for every little thing. Lots of things happen in every administration. Im not a democratic or republican, but everyone seems so polarized these days. I remember the US being in Rwanda, and I had no clue about what really happened there until one my coworkers told me. he was a marine and he told me tons of stuff happened. then i wasnt surpised by blackhawk down as most people did. The world is not a good place and people should recognize the UNITED STATES (NOT THE REPUBLICANS OR DEMOCRATS) is always engaged in conflicts to ensure the safety of the nation. whether its right or wrong is debateable, but why they do it is not.

 

in DUNE, Paul M'Diab successfully defeated the Harkonens and brought peace to both the house of atraitis and the fremen (people of dune). So Im optimistic for the future.

 

I agree with you that Vietnam isn't the most prosperous place on earth. But it wasn't very prosperous under the corrupt Diem rule either. Anyone who lived here then would have been sending money back home under him as well.

The people of Vietnam could not have voted the leader out of power. The leader was a man named Diem who was installed by the U.S. He was not democratically elected and the only elections pending were for the unification of the north and the south. Diem was the Prime Minster and the monarch who still had some powers was Bao Dai. However, Diem used a referendum and Bao Dai agreed to lessen his involvement in day to day governence. He was then removed totally.

Diem then declared himself the President of the South Vietnamese Republic. There was no election and South Vietnam wasn't ruled in a democratic manner.

 

why did all the people from the south leave then? if they hated the americans and loved the north. they'd stay right? you give me a good answer and you ask any one of the huge vietnamese population in houston about why they left. (hint, it wasnt because of the corrupt south vietnamese).

 

Ask Harry Truman- The Buck stops here.

 

i forgot, they tried to bomb the world trade center before under Clinton's administration, but crap that was bush's fault.
they bombed the barracks in saudi arabia under clinton, but its bush's fault.
they bombed the US embassy in Kenya under clinton, but its bush's fault.
bush started global warming
bush started the hurricane
bush started the tsunami
some girl dissed you at the club, blame it on bush
sura got hurt again, its bush's fault
i didnt win the lotto, damn you GW!!!!
ford laid off 30,000 people, bush's fault!!!
those miners died!! bush's fault!!
princess diana died, bush did it!!
bush i hate him!! he's evil, he made the astros lose!! bush!!

 

I feel strongly that we shouldn't have gone in the first place and I put that blame squarly on Bush.

I'm not advocating we bail. We started it and we gotta finish it. But Bush claims that we will "win" the war however he has yet to define what "winning" means. Until we define it, we'll never acheive success because we are an aimless ship.

Agreed.

But I DO blame the Bush supporters that CONTINUE to support Bush. He got us in this mess and hasn't showed that he is learning from his mistakes...and yet people still support him. Boggles my mind.

An "interest" and a "war" are two very different things.

 

I didn't say they loved the North and hated America. They left because life for a number of reasons. One they had land claimed by the govt. or were associated with those that did. They were connected with or supporters of that govt.

I never made the claim that everyone in S. Vietnam was in favor of a communists govt. I said that the people Vietnam as a whole would have been worse off had the Dictater Diem stayed in power than they are now under a communist govt. Obviously those with more to lose or targeted by the communists would want to get out. That shouldn't be surprising, and I wasn't trying to claim otherwise.

 

someone needs a hug

you forgot "2250 Americans have died for a lie! It's Bush's fault"

 

You might want to read the original post. According to polling data, the Iraqi citizens are enjoying a better quality of life and have less fear than before the war.

 

here are ways
To get there
If you care enough
For the living
Make a little space
Make a better place...

Heal the world
Make it a better place
For you and for me
And the entire human race
There are people dying
If you care enough
For the living
Make a better place
For you and for me

 

Well, at least they can enjoy satellite television and watch MTV. Did you ever watch the MTV special on Iraqis a couple years ago? they showed some Iraqi kids they loved the Backstreet Boys and some kid had a Will Smith poster on the wall. see, we're all the same.

 

Tell that to the families of the dead Iraqi's that waited in line to get a job and got blown up. Also, I've heard multiple reports that many areas still don't have running water or electricity.

So many may be better off but many are probably worse off.

Regardless, success will ultimately be judged historically. We'll need to look back 10-20-30 years from now. If Iraq turns into another Palestine, they the war would be a complete failure by any measure.

 

Regarding the authors' last name, I never knew the letter Z was pronounced like "SP".

 

im just ticked that no one here understands that the movie DUNE forcasts the events in IRAQ. maybe i'm just M'Diab, the superbeing on this board.
In fact, I know i'm the superbeing.

 

Dude, it's Muad'Dib. It was also a book way before it was a movie.