ESPN rank Zion, Luka, Tatum

altho he could play center, he's not old enough. I'd say wait about 15 more years and we'll see if he has earned it.

 

Yes he can get even more efficient but considering how skilled he is now I dunno how much more skilled he can be. He can totally be more efficient but that will probably be a marginal improvement on his part.

Why is Luka losing the baby fat suddenly gonna make him athletic and a monster defensively? That's not logical athleticism is something you are born with. He can improve his defense the same way Harden did but Harden was born with a lot of innate mass and strength he can't be pushed in the post. Luka losing weight will make him even softer on defense if he gains muscle mass then he will be slower and lose some of the quickness he currently has.

I'm a big Luka fan but to say he still has a lot of untapped potential is wrong imo. Luka is pretty close to a finished product already at 21 yrs old because he has been playing and exploring his limits since he was 15. In contrast somebody like Tatum just played in AAU with dunks and 0 fundamentals till he arrived in the NBA.

 

Trae young? Really? until his game leads to wins, hes only proven that he is very talented and thats it ( think gilbert arenas, marbury and a ton of other good players, that nobody thinks are all time greats). To be a generational talent, you need to make everybody around you better and he dosent, at least yet, but lets not forgeet he is really young.
I dont know if you watch basketball, or just highlights, but try watching a full game of these guys.
Trae may be the worst defensive player in the league, and most of his assists comes from passes that he makes only when he knows he would get the assist. Now, dont get me wrong, he can develop to be great, he is still so young and only on his second year, plus his offensive game is great, but he is nowhere near yet. One thing i think is great about him, is that he already goes a lot to the line, and thats something that any great player needs in order to get some easy points, and still to this day, is one of jason tatums weakest points.
I think right now, Luka is better, zion has the highest ceiling if he can stay healty, and Tatum looks like an all stars for years to come, same as Young.
All good, but Luka and Zion looks like generational guys, and ill put my money on Luka mostly because of the risk injury of Zion.

 

please read my response to koperboy. He had the same argument you had. There is no measurement for “making guys better”. Unless you have some secret knowledge on their progression in practices specifically led by that player and privy to all the mentorship discussions and tactical discussions etc you have no way of knowing just by watching games and anything you say would be conjecture. In response to your question yes I have watched both young and luka play and that’s my assessment. Luka is not a strong defender by any means. You haven’t convinced me luka or Zion is better than young at this point but hey it’s your opinion.

 

thats ok, i dont need to convice you of anything that s obvious to everybody else watching. gl

 

Your Assumption dude lol. That’s why we all have opinions and thoughts. You made an argument and I just asked you to back it up,
which you didn't. That’s all. It’s ok though its your opinion.

 

Of course I didn't answer you with facts. For you it's very obvious how you measure everything: by stats. Player A averages more assists than player B, so A is clearly a better passer. Same for rebounds, points etc. Surely Westbrook must be better than MJ for you.

Statistics need context, and you don't get that without watching games. It's really annoying discussing basketball with someone who doesn't watch games, but has tons of opinion on a player, but here we go: Maxi Kleber and DFS are having career years playing next to Luka, and Tim Hardaway Jr. and Dwight Powell are more efficient than ever. Dallas' offense is arguably best in NBA (I say arguably because even though they are first in Offensive rating, this stat still needs context).

 

Sure you can have your opinion. It's just it's not as valid as others' because it's based off of box score.

 

Notice in my original answer, I haven't talked about his skill at all. I agree he can't add more in terms of skill compared to Tatum or Zion. However, with better conditioning and a bit of muscle mass (I don't expect him to become Karl Malone of course) he can enhance those skills. For example, just one summer of diet and weights was enough for him to explode stat-wise compared to his rookie year. He also has a quicker first step compared to his first season. In a few years, he can get even quicker, faster and stronger. Will he be the fastest/quickest/strongest NBA player that is? Of course not, his ceiling in those areas, save for deceleration, is probably slightly above average. But combined with his skills, it's more than enough to be a perennial MVP candidate, which I don't see Tatum or Zion to become any time soon.

I feel like a broken record by now, but I can't state enough how easier it is to learn skills as a teenager than a young adult. Typical NBA player builds his physique first and polishes his skills while playing in NBA. Luka did the opposite, and that's why it's easier for him to advance quicker than anyone else that is around his age.

 

that’s why your logic is flawed. It’s based on conjecture. You see where I’m getting at? No evidence. Nothing quantifiable. “Making players better” not a real measurement. Also you assume I don’t watch basketball. Your argument rests on a lot of assumptions. You have no way of knowing whether trae young leads his team and encourages team mates, going over moves and sets after games or talk tactics. You and regular fans including myself do not have that information. We are not there at scrimmages and practices we don’t see the development we don’t see the relationship we don’t see none of that so you can’t sit there and tell me he makes the team better by just simply being there and playing. That’s not how basketball works. It’s not one man but the sum of its parts and if you’ve played you’d understand this. Media people don’t know what they’re talking about when they speak about this. PJ can make russ and harden better. Sefalosha can make Russ and harden better. Tyson Chandler can make them better. It’s not always stars that make players better. Training staff, player development, coaching, strength and conditioning. It’s about the whole not one man. You can’t say hey they have career years it must be luka. No that’s flawed logic. He might be a cog in the whole machine but that’s just one small part. Kobe couldn’t save bad teams. Harden couldn’t save mediocre teams. Steph curry can’t save the Warriors. And people mention
the marburys or monte Ellis type players etc how do you know which players they make better. Really? I’m just trying to get you to understand there’s no such measurement unless you have insider info or experience with these players personally we will never know how much of an impact they have on other players. Sum of the parts. If u think Luka is great hey that’s your opinion. I’m just pointing out the flawed reasoning behind it.

 

I never said my opinion is solely based on the box score. That’s just a tool to help guide an assessment. There’s the eye test, media reporting, deeper statistics, and social media that gives you historical facts. All this leads to analysis and assessments.

 

No one is attacking you. Let me repeat no one is attacking you. No one is attacking you. We are just challenging you to think about your logic. No need to be defensive. No need to be defensive.

 

I would love to see Tatum top this list bc I love his game.
Currently it's Luka one (having done it longer ) and Tatum 2. But if Zion had played.all year he would be 1

 

no one is attacking you. No one is attacking you. No need to attack me. No need to be defensive. No need for snarky comments. No need for accusations. No need. No need. Do need a logical explanation or discussion. Do need. Do need that.

 

No one is attacking you. No one is attacking you. No one is attacking you no need to be emotional attacking other people and saying things like you think other people are wrong And they’re morons. No one said you’re wrong or a moron. They just disagree. No need for that language. If you disagree Think and state why logically and intelligently.

 

To roslolian, I responded like you said: Logically. To this though:

I just can't. I watch both and that's what I see:
- how Young approaches double teams and how Luka does it (one sees over defense, other doesn't)
- what kind of calls Young gets compared to Luka (Luka is so banged up because of no-calls - see his finger or scratches all over his arms - he can't even play today against Minnesota). But that was always, unfortuntely, true for bigger guys - they don't get the calls smaller guys get.
- how many minutes Young plays in garbage time compared to Luka

Also, what are those holes in Luka's game you are talking about? Of course every player has more or less of them, but if you put Luka second to Young because of them, they must be pretty glaring...

 

Get Up crew says we are watching passing of torch between Lebron and Zion just like Jordan and Kobe. No mention of Luka or Tatum... Ouch!

 

I think it’s clearly Luka. He’s a one man offense like Harden. Tatum and Zion aren’t on that level, at least to my eyes.

 

Suns were wrong to go with a Center to begin with. Unless that Center is skilled like Embiid, even then given how slow Embiid moves......

The game has shifted towards shorter, faster and more skilled players. Get with the program!

 

I still have yet to see how you can build a great team "around" Zion. He's already a great player, and I expect him to continue being a great player, but right now he looks exactly like I though he would. He's extremely athletic and is a very active finisher around the rim, but that's not enough. Until I see him being able to take over a game with the ball in his hands, he will be a co-star, the same way Anthony Davis is.

That's not even taking into account the concerns about his frame and reliance on athleticism.

I would still take Tatum over him, and I would certainly take Luka over either one without even a thought.