1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Does CF think the Rockets are building for playoff success?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Rileydog, Nov 23, 2019.

  1. Rileydog

    Rileydog Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2002
    Messages:
    5,123
    Likes Received:
    5,421
    I like the toughness that Westbrook brings. I like McLemore. I like House showing signs. I like Thabo as a reserve. I like Tyson Chandler a lot. I like a lot about this years team. I raise this question because the edges of the team are improving IMO, but I still worry about two things Harden related.

    First, He is on the same track as prior years. Tons of minutes, tons of usage to win regular season games. Not resting, not developing other style of play .... things that could cost you a few reg season games, but better position you for playoff success.

    Second, and relatedly, harden is again putting up MVP numbers. We are already hearing rabbit ear comments within CF about Harden not being in MVP conversation etc. this dynamic feeds the problems I note above. Successful coaches and organizations seem to have the bigger picture in mind. popovich would reduce Hardens usage to both grow the rest of the team, and to save him for the playoffs. Toronto did that last year with Kawhi. Doc is doing that this year.

    My answer to the question I pose has to be a firm “no”, until I see a big picture emphasis on winning big in the playoffs. This is a waste of Hardens prime years.

    Of course, all that said, the next question is more difficult — is it really the priority of Tillman, Harden, Dantoni to win the title? Is it really? Or is it about profits, MVPs, scoring titles, coaching security? I’m not saying they don’t “want” a title. I’m questioning whether it is the PRIORITY on which elite teams base every decision and on which they are laser focused?

    When I step back and really critically analyze things, I realize that my excitement for the team is capped because I don’t like the conclusions I reach.
     
    charlieaustin, donkeypunch and J.R. like this.
  2. J.R.

    J.R. Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    107,699
    Likes Received:
    156,873
    tl;dr: No I don't think they're "building" for playoff success or that it's a priority. No, I don't think they'll win a championship with Harden (or with Tilman or with Mike).
    As long as they win MVPs, win scoring titles, get triple doubles, roll out the pregame red carpet with the DJ, all is well #swagchamps

    No.

    They are building to be another "fun", regular season team that wins 50 games.

    And no. For all the reasons you mentioned.
    It's for all the reasons that don't matter. Profits, regular season MVPs, regular season scoring titles, triple doubles ... who the **** cares?
    Daily ****ing threads ... Oh no! Stephen A. said this! Max said this! Did you hear what Nick Wright said? Cowherd doesn't have him first for MVP! NBA listed him third on the Kia MVP ladder! Oh no!

    All your regular season glory are belong to us!

    Mike is not a championship caliber coach. Mike's just along for the ride.
    Oh, he wants a 2-3 year extension while also saying James has a great 2-3 years left? No kidding! ("But there’s no reason James isn’t like this for another two, three years.”)

    Tilman is not a championship owner.
    I've come to @Asian Sensation & @JayZ750 side ... I don't believe James is a championship caliber lead player. And Westbrook sure as hell ain't.
    Regular season MVP and postseason something less than that.
    Regular season MVP and then in the postseason, cries of "not enough help! not enough help". Funny, I don't hear about not enough help during the season (when he's dropping 30/40/50/60 and double-doubles and triple-doubles.)

    No one wants to hear it but T-Mac is right, Kobe's right. The James Harden solo act isn't going anywhere in the postseason.

    And that's just it. They run everything through one guy and jack up a bunch of threes. Backup plan? Like non.
    Threes don't fall? 0-27? Just keep on shooting!
    James has an off night (aka he's drunk, he's concussed, he went to the club, etc.), you're screwed.
    Yeah tell me Kawhi & Steph can't do what he does. They also don't need everything ran through them, ball in their hands all the time or otherwise be pretty much useless.

    Sorry if I don't buy into postseason James Harden. Where/what's his playoff moment? List of "blunders" is long though.

    Losing by 39 to the Spurs WITHOUT Kawhi and Tony?
    Damian Lillard .9?
    Getting benched & watching Josh Smith/Corey Brewer bring the team back?
    Setting a playoff record for most turnovers in a game?
    Lost to Durant/Cousin-less Warriors team in G5(Durant exits with 2 minutes left in the 3rd; Harden takes one shot in the final 7 minutes)
    G6 no Durant, no Cousins, Curry/Green in foul trouble, Curry scoreless at half; up 89-82 before Steph goes nuclear & wins the game

    This guy has the highest of highs and lowest of lows.
    When he's on, damn he's on! He's MVP! He's best player in the league!
    When he's off, damn is he off! Just beyond awful, like what the **** are you doing? Get him outta there ASAP.
    What other star runs as hot & cold as Harden?
    What other star .. "Is AD concussed?" "Did KD go to the club?" "Is LeBron sober?" "Did Kawhi quit?" "Does Doncic have money on this game?" "Is Kyrie trying to throw the game?"

    He has no incentive to change. He's 2nd in line behind Tilman (or 2B to Daryl). He's a regular season baller, gets headlines for dropping 40/50/60. Has Adidas #swagchamp. He made it.

    Like I laugh at 'Hire a real coach! Hire a coach who will hold him accountable!' :D Yeah, that coach won't be hired in the first place. You bench him or try to hold him accountable, you'll be gone. (see McHale, Kevin; Paul, Chris)
     
    #2 J.R., Nov 23, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
  3. hakeem94

    hakeem94 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2016
    Messages:
    30,803
    Likes Received:
    41,420
    all great arguments, I was tempted to give in and say, hes right, BUT, but something told me, how come, despite being so intelligent observer and having a sharp eye for detail, and being able to put such a constructive criticism, he still forgot to mention adam silver robbed harden of 2 championships and no other star has to deal with this?


    Are you gonna sit there and blame Harden Tilman and Dantoni for not beating the refs when no other coach owner and star player has to put up with this bs?
     
    Lawlruschang likes this.
  4. RocketsFan247

    RocketsFan247 Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2013
    Messages:
    1,111
    Likes Received:
    1,583
    If Tilman was serious about getting that chip, he'll fire MDA and immediately hire JVG. Whether Harden or Russ like it or not, it's what's needed especially for close game situations and decision making, regardless of the quarter.

    Additionally, this system has almost reached its peak where we see the double comes with Harden closer to the halfcourt line than the 3, and the only option they talk about is Harden dumping it to Russ or a shooter at the 3 line, where the player still has to make a new play and recovering is too easy. Just imagine any other star player that's been doubled: they've almost always found a way to make the other team instantly regret it. Whatever we're doing, it's not scaring anyone away from doubling him. Classic case of play harder and not think smarter.
     
    BasketMAD likes this.
  5. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    8,342
    Likes Received:
    11,325
    With our small ass starting lineup I doubt it.
     
  6. payaso

    payaso Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 1999
    Messages:
    636
    Likes Received:
    330
    Whenever I see 13 fading back to mid-court when Russ is running the half court set I am wholly unconvinced that 13 will do whatever is required of him to win.
    Someone -anyone- show me footage of Magic/Bird/MJ/Kobe/Curry/Klay/Kawhi playing like that- just checking out of the play altogether.

    Something interesting, and telling- 13 is my wife's favorite player, hands-down; she works as a realtor.
    This gave me additional thought, and bear with me here- in her work she's on a team of agents under a broker. The success of her team is of concern to her, but only insofar as it relates to her long-term viability in the industry. In other words, she's all about her own individual performance, ethical/legal compliance and compensation. She may provide help/guidance to her less-experienced team members, but only up to a point - there are no team awards for a 1099 worker.
    She values individual performance. James Harden is her favorite player. Some things make sense when cast in a particular light.

    This team is still one quality Westbrook-mentality piece away from coming out of the West. We are at Russ's ceiling and starting to see the paint peel up there- that's a shame. I think we are at 13's ceiling unless he decides to add something like that Kawhi running-and-fading-towards-the-baseline 15-footer to his arsenal instead of that insipid corner fade-off-one-foot 3 silliness that constituted his off-season "improvement". Try something that works in a game.
     
  7. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    89,919
    Likes Received:
    43,297
    Right now, the management ppl are clearly half-arsing. We'll see after the trade deadline.

    I guess there is some chemistry between WB and Harden as childhood friends, but in reality, they are 2 high usage superstars, put together, they are only 1+0.50= 1.5 at best and not 2 or 3.

    Harden still keeps this team afloat and WB has his fair share of useful games, and fair share of useless games.

    You can only improve with above average role players I guess with 2 of those 38-40 million contracts.

    Praying that Ego can score 19 ppg efficiently again.
     
    #7 daywalker02, Nov 23, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
    BasketMAD and payaso like this.
  8. donkeypunch

    donkeypunch Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2013
    Messages:
    19,491
    Likes Received:
    22,017
    Damn this robot has emotions and thoughts. He is evolving. Must destroy before end of humanity.
     
    BHannes2BHonest and J.R. like this.
  9. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2001
    Messages:
    26,578
    Likes Received:
    35,656
    Is Tilman spending money for playoff success?
     
  10. Madmanmetz

    Madmanmetz Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Messages:
    2,082
    Likes Received:
    2,448
    Please don't remind me how terrible the calls were in any series vs GSW, gives me PTSD. I really hate the blame the refs line but I go to it vs Dallas with T-Mac, those games were fixed. The GSW series may have not been fixed but there was something not right, completely one sided.
     
  11. macan

    macan Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    6,878
    Likes Received:
    10,487
    i actually believe that we gonna play a lot better in this year's playoffs than regular season, if everyone's healthy.
     
    Lawlruschang, javal_lon and jcmoon like this.
  12. Will

    Will Clutch Crew
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    5,068
    Likes Received:
    9,085
    I have complete confidence that this team is going nowhere in the playoffs. As a result, perversely, I'm enjoying the season more. There's no glory to choke away. We're fun to watch, and that's about it. Pass the chips.
     
    Os Trigonum and tycoonchip like this.
  13. Little Bit

    Little Bit Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2008
    Messages:
    7,144
    Likes Received:
    6,013
    More than half the team is minimum contracts.

    Minimum contracts=Minimum Value

    You get what you pay for.
     
  14. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2001
    Messages:
    26,578
    Likes Received:
    35,656
    Rockets are building for success. They are in PRIME position to raise that Luxury Tax Savings banner for a 2nd straight year. I don't see why there would be complaints.


    LTSavings.jpg
     
    Dgn1, slothy420, BasketMAD and 2 others like this.
  15. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    43,500
    Likes Received:
    29,549
    The team traded for a historically inefficient playoff performer in Westbrook and penny pinched for role players and depth.

    Playoffs cannot possibly be their top priority based on the moves they made.
     
    slothy420 likes this.
  16. jcmoon

    jcmoon Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2002
    Messages:
    2,211
    Likes Received:
    2,202
    We went ALL IN with CP3 and failed when his hamstring gave out. its hard to recover from that.
     
    fckbandwagons likes this.
  17. Rileydog

    Rileydog Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2002
    Messages:
    5,123
    Likes Received:
    5,421
    I really thought there would be more folks running in here to defend Harden and claim he has the stuff to win the title. I'm a little gratified to see that my sentiments on this are not unique.

    As for those who are commenting on the officiating in the past runs against GWS, I get it. That was tough to swallow, but Harden's game requires whistles to go his way. Kawhi as an example, does not.

    I do recognize that we were probably a CP3 hamstring from a ring. That's tough. But even then, we have to ask whether more of the decisions in that season could have been made to prepare for a title run. More diversification of the offense. More tools to combat the problems of what we ultimately ran into. Maybe that would have kept us from taking and missing a historic number of threes.
     
  18. omgTHEpotential

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2012
    Messages:
    7,385
    Likes Received:
    5,890
    Agreed. Instead check out my sig.
     
  19. Aruba77

    Aruba77 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 1999
    Messages:
    13,632
    Likes Received:
    14,679
    i remain concerned about our length and defense in a best of 7 series against teams like the Lakers and Clips, but if Morey can find a way to add an impact front court player, that could be enough. We're still a work in progress, but we are only a month in and baring injury we'll be a scary team come playoff time.
     
    Highlyrated and Plowman like this.
  20. mike2k132

    mike2k132 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    Messages:
    4,060
    Likes Received:
    3,550

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now