For those keeping track at home. Those deals the Astros have made to propel them to the next level - or at least help down the stretch in past years. Randy Johnson Pedro Astacio Mark Loretta Tom Gordon Mike Williams Carlos Beltran Number of playoff series won following the acquisitions: None Those players resigned: None Prospects given up to acquire this help: Guillen, Garcia, Halama, McKnight, Buck, Ginter (?), etc...need to research more, but you get the point. Does not include Saarloos and Robertson deals since those occured earlier in the season. Although only a handful of the prospects given up ever pan out, we can look to these deals as an explanation as to why the farm isn't quite as highly regarded as it once was. No doubt some of the deals made sense at the time, but it definitely handicaps your future (especially if you chose not to resign some of the acquisitions).
those are the risks you have to take. The only prospects mentioned that were significant losses were Carlos Gullien and Freddy Garcia. But looking back, i'd still pull the trigger to acquire Johnson, it was clearly our best shot at a world series. Roberston, McKnight, Ginter, Halama were all given their shots with the ballclub and amounted to nothing. Buck has some offensive skills but it remains to be seen what he can do on the major league level. Our triple A farm system has been depleted because we've called the guys up. Morgan Ensberg Adam Everett Jason Lane etc...
chrisjent -- there was actually an article on ESPN.com about this a while back, that wasn't astro specific. it did this type of analysis for all the teams that had made these moves and in most instances the player traded for was never signed by the team that traded for himi....and in many instances, the prospects traded turned out to be legit major leaguers. the problem is that management is under pressure. they're always perceived as not doing enough. we hear that all the time here. so if they don't make the beltran move, you'll have people screaming, "why didn't we get beltran" when a rival picks him up...and when we do you'll hear, "man..we gave up too many good prospects to get him." it's always a 20/20 hindsight thing.
Upshoot is there will be alot of holes to fill. These trades while not crippling the franchise did nothing to help Gerry has shown that he is aggressive, but at the same time he has been unable to put the final pieces together. The bullpen he cobbled through trades this season were supposed to add stability... the result: Weathers, Harville, Backe, Duckworth...not one of those acquisitions has worked out. the guys he let go outright, getting nothing in return include Stone, Linebrink, Brocail, and Lugo. Not a good track record from this pov. While Gerry is no Randy Smith, he also isn't the baseball genius some folks would lead you to believe.
these are the guys your going to use? Of course Gerry didn't get anything in return because these players amounted to nothing while they were here.
You failed to respond to Gerry's acquisitions of the past year. All besides the pettite/clemens/beltran no-brainers and the possible find in the Robertson trade have been disasterous. The bully went from Lidge/Dotel/Wagner to Weathers or Harville/Miceli/Lidge. There was a reason why Miceli was on about four teams last year and why Harville couldn't crack the A's rotation for 3 years (although you'll see Saarloos has in less than 3 months). Still Gerry bit. Off the top of my head, insofar as the other guys, I believe Stone set a rookie record for appearances and was much better than some of the current options this year. Lugo was the starting SS at the time of his release. Even Ward had trade value, yet Gerry sucked that opportunity dry by holding onto him a year too long. And why don't I throw Ron Villone in there as well. I think he performed better than any 5th starter we've thrown out there this year (granted we had a glut at SP at the beginning of the season, but Gerry took care of that in a hurry too- at least we'll have Tavaras to show for Robertson trade).
All I know is, this was supposed to be the Astros year. I really bought into the "our turn" thing. Unless they practically win out up until the deadline, this team is done. If they do, awesome, I might gain back some respect for this team. If not, then you'll get a bunch of prospects back as we tear the team apart. It's definitely gonna be a while before the Astros do anything now, unless it's NOW.
Just a rumor, but I think if nothing happens soon, he's gone... Carlos Rumor Beltran may interest LA DODGERS notebook 12:26 AM PDT on Thursday, July 22, 2004 LOS ANGELES - The Dodgers are among the teams rumored to be interested in Houston outfielder Carlos Beltran, who could go on the trading block for the second time this year if the Astros continue their downhill slide in the National League Central Division. Beltran will be a free agent after this season, but Dodgers general manager Paul DePodesta said Tuesday that he wouldn't shy away from pursuing a player who could test the market after the season ends. The Astros acquired Beltran in late June from Kansas City in a three-way trade that sent closer Octavio Dotel to Oakland. Dodgers setup man Guillermo Mota seems a likely candidate to be offered to Houston if DePodesta goes after Beltran, who hit has eight home runs in 82 at-bats since being acquired by the Astros. "We've put ourselves in a situation where I think the onus is on the teams that are behind us," Dodgers outfielder Dave Roberts. "We're not waiting for what could be added to this team. We're taking care of business by ourselves right now and whatever he (DePodesta) decides to do, that's on him."
What about a Beltran for Bradley swap. That way we would have a solid top of the lineup hitter and centerfielder for next season. I would love to keep Beltran but if he wants to play elsewhere then unload him.
I meant to say... We could of had Mota + a minor leaguer for Hidalgo this past summer. Hunsicker didn't pull the trigger!
I read it at Latimes.com... (I think) Pancho, who is the equivalent DocRocket at Fanhome.com, mentioned it in one of his threads. It corroborated by the article in LA Times (I think). It was this past off season. it was mentioned here also. http://mb3.theinsiders.com/flosange...eRange?topicID=918.topic&start=3901&stop=3920 the link to Latimes.com has expired... www.latimes.com/sports/ba...mlb-dodger
bigboy, Pretty weak stuff if you ask me. The part of the article that that BBS poster posted seems nothing more than speculation. "Dan Evans has resumed his pursuit of a trade to boost the team's offense, with Houston outfielder Richard Hidalgo emerging as a possible candidate." Where's the proof that they offered us Mota and a minor leaguer?? Where's the proof that Hunsicker said no to any deal??
I know it is pretty weak. I am pretty sure someone else read it. Sorry, I looked for the link it for about 30 minutes.
However, I will tell you that Pancho knows his stuff. If you have a chance, go to the site and read some of the things he writes.
Did Pancho say that Hunsicker turned down that trade or that we were offered Mota? BTW, I doubt the Dodgers would have even given us Mota for Doggy. JMO though.
You have to think back. People were complaining about the Wagner deal. Hidalgo was our MVP at that point, he had one more year left on his contract, he was considered our best defensive outfielder. They had Gagne, they needed a stick. Hunsicker thought we were ok with Dotel/Lidge/Miceli. It made sense back then. It turned out to be a mistake. Hindsight/past performance... whatever you want to call it.
Pancho wrote it first but then it was mentioned either at Sportsline.com or one of the LA newspapers.(Latimes.com)
