AE only has 15 sacrifice bunts because he basically moves Biggio over anytime he is on first w/ no outs. Pierre was the lead off hitter last year, so there weren't that many times where a sacrifice was in order.
http://www.theheckler.com/index.php...=1&PHPSESSID=f7ef9eb8e18a5c9977fc4ce0b5d88009 Lance Berkman nearly ended Craig Biggio’s career last week when he mistook the veteran center fielder for a huge Twinkie. “Holy cream filling,” said Berkman, upon spotting what he thought was five feet of Hostess snack cake. “Get in my belly!” According to second baseman Jeff Kent, what happened next was the scariest thing he’d ever seen on a baseball diamond. “I heard Craig screaming,” said Kent. “When I turned around, I saw Lance chasing him up Tal’s Hill in center field. Craig tripped, and that’s when Berk bit him on the shoulder. It was horrible.” Kent rushed to Biggio’s aid, but not before Berkman had eaten half the center fielder’s jersey and most of his upper left arm. “I’m telling you, he had Twinkie rage!” cried a hospitalized Biggio. “It was like looking into the eyes of a whale. I can’t go back out there with him. You can’t make me! Not for all the money in the world!” Biggio then ordered the nurse to immediately alert security should Berkman try to visit him. “He treated my shoulder like a snack cake,” said Biggio. “Well, I’m not a snack cake. I’m a ballplayer. And now I might lose my left arm.” Berkman shrugged off the whole fiasco. “It was an accident,” he said. “I don’t see why everybody’s flipping out. Have you ever seen Craig? The guy looks like a Twinkie. A wonderful...golden....cream-filled...uh, I should go make sure he’s okay.”
I did not say that there were no "legends" that have come up short when it counts, but that I did not know of "too many". Obviously there are some; Barry Bonds was virtually invisable in the playoffs prior to 2 years ago. And if you are saying that Bagwell is even in the same stratosphere as Ted Williams in terms of regular season accomplishments then I wholeheartedly disagree.
i'm saying that bagwell has put up some very impressive numbers that place him offensively among the greatest 1B to ever play the game. and i'm saying that postseason accomplishments aren't as important as you might think when considering HOF candidacy.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. While Bagwell put up some nice numbers in the prime of his career, they were not "impressive" enough to justify giving him the label of "legend" in my book. It seems as though our context of the word legend is different. There are numerous players in the Hall that are not legends of the game. Ted Williams is arguably the greatest hitter of all-time and was virtually the best player in the game for a decade. Bagwell has put up Frank Thomas-like offensive numbers (though not quite as good, but similar) for his career. Now Frank Thomas is a good player, but he is nowhere near legendary status.
i guess i'm saying if you're in the hall, you have legendary status. certainly would seem so among the fans of the team you played for. again, he wil end up with numbers that are just ridiculous compared to other 1B all time.
Maybe you forgot about Lou Gerhig. http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/hofer_bios/Gehrig_Lou.htm
Gehrig...fine. Is that all ya got?? So Bagwell is the best 1b to ever play the game who wasn't named Gehrig? I think that secures his place in the HOF.
I agree that Bagwell will probably make the "Hall", but that still does not make him a legend of the game. Again, there are numerous players that are in Cooperstown that are not legends. Fred Clarke Ed Delahanty Chick Hafey Monte Irvin Heinie Manush Joe Medwick Elmer Flick Harry Heilmann Harry Hooper Earl Averill Cool Papa Bell Max Carey Oscar Charleston Turkey Stearnes Lloyd Waner Looking at this list of names, does any "one" strike you as a "legend" of baseball? No, but they are all HOF outfielders. I think that we can agree that there is a hierarchy of players in Cooperstown, correct. Some are legends and others are not. By saying that everyone in the "Hall" is of legendary status then you are confirming that anything that graces the HOF is of legendary status as well. Babe Ruth's signed bat; probably can be rembered as something of mythical status as it is tied to a legendary player. But on the other hand, the collectors edition DVD of "A League of their Own" is most likely not.
ok..we're just speaking a different language, i guess. but at the end of the day, if i ask you to come up with your list of greatest 1B ever...and your list goes: 1. Gehrig 2. Bagwell then i'm calling bagwell a legend whether you think he is or not!
Probably not. I think Bagwell will still be behind Jimmie Foxx when it is all said and done. You could probably make a case for Cap Anson ahead of Bagwell as well. And since you are speculating on where and how Bagwell will end his career, I'll go ahead and say that Todd Helton will end with a better career than Bagwell too. So looking at the one bags of the past and present my list would go as follows: 1. Gehrig 2. Jimmie Foxx 3. Todd Helton 4. Bagwell 5. Cap Anson Todd Helton career numbers: G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB 1032 3686 756 1241 295 20 228 767 2260 584 SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG 490 28 23 .427 .613 .337 Jeff Bagwell career numbers: G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB 2010 7332 1442 2195 466 30 428 1454 4005 1324 SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG 1460 197 77 .410 .546 .299 Also, on a side note, I think that Thome will have a career similar to Bagwell in terms of numbers as well; and if Pujols keeps up, he may very well end up as the best. So to put Bagwell on there at number two and ignore other current players with a similar or better line gives these other players no credit and does nothing to legitimize you list. In the end, Bagwell is a good player and may very well be an Astros "team" legend, but I do not think that he is a legend of baseball as a whole. To me, there are only a handful of legends, and those are the ones that have done things memorable that withstand the test of time; Bagwell has done absolutely nothing of the sort.
Helton's number are WAAAAAYYYYY too skewed by Coors Field for me to take seriously. ...majority of Bags' career is one of the greatest pitchers' parks in major league history. if bagwell had his career in a yankee uniform, we'd already be calling him a legend.
gunn, just stop for a second and look up Helton's career numbers away from Coors. Then report back to us. Thome, Frank Thomas and Bagwell are all HOF players in my book. Don't even mention Pujols with them after only 2.5 seasons in the majors.
