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Connecting the Trump-Russia Dots

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by adoo, Mar 8, 2017.

  1. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    It should read Russian government or businesses. Same ole Trump legalese trying to limit the scope.
     
  2. JeffB

    JeffB Contributing Member
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    Do you think the businesses may fall under "any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation"? Or perhaps, since the Russian oligarchy is pretty much an extension of the government under Putin, that those business links can be treated as links to the Russian government? Probably depends on how Mueller or the order interprets "Russian government."

    Just for a sense of how much leeway Mueller has:
    Here is the order:
    https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/967231/download

    Here is the legalese involving jurisdiction:
    https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/600.4

    § 600.4 Jurisdiction.
    (a)Original jurisdiction. The jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall be established by the Attorney General. The Special Counsel will be provided with a specific factual statement of the matter to be investigated. The jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall also include the authority to investigate and prosecute federal crimes committed in the course of, and with intent to interfere with, the Special Counsel's investigation, such as perjury, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence, and intimidation of witnesses; and to conduct appeals arising out of the matter being investigated and/or prosecuted.

    (b)Additional jurisdiction. If in the course of his or her investigation the Special Counsel concludes that additional jurisdiction beyond that specified in his or her original jurisdiction is necessary in order to fully investigate and resolve the matters assigned, or to investigate new matters that come to light in the course of his or her investigation, he or she shall consult with the Attorney General, who will determine whether to include the additional matters within the Special Counsel's jurisdiction or assign them elsewhere.

    (c)Civil and administrative jurisdiction. If in the course of his or her investigation the Special Counsel determines that administrative remedies, civil sanctions or other governmental action outside the criminal justice system might be appropriate, he or she shall consult with the Attorney General with respect to the appropriate component to take any necessary action. A Special Counsel shall not have civil or administrative authority unless specifically granted such jurisdiction by the Attorney General.

    More on oversight:
    https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/600.7
    § 600.7 Conduct and accountability.
    (a) A Special Counsel shall comply with the rules, regulations, procedures, practices and policies of the Department of Justice. He or she shall consult with appropriate offices within the Department for guidance with respect to established practices, policies and procedures of the Department, including ethics and security regulations and procedures. Should the Special Counsel conclude that the extraordinary circumstances of any particular decision would render compliance with required review and approval procedures by the designated Departmental component inappropriate, he or she may consult directly with the Attorney General.

    (b) The Special Counsel shall not be subject to the day-to-day supervision of any official of the Department. However, the Attorney General may request that the Special Counsel provide an explanation for any investigative or prosecutorial step, and may after review conclude that the action is so inappropriate or unwarranted under established Departmental practices that it should not be pursued. In conducting that review, the Attorney General will give great weight to the views of the Special Counsel. If the Attorney General concludes that a proposed action by a Special Counsel should not be pursued, the Attorney General shall notify Congress as specified in § 600.9(a)(3).

    (c) The Special Counsel and staff shall be subject to disciplinary action for misconduct and breach of ethical duties under the same standards and to the same extent as are other employees of the Department of Justice. Inquiries into such matters shall be handled through the appropriate office of the Department upon the approval of the Attorney General.

    (d) The Special Counsel may be disciplined or removed from office only by the personal action of the Attorney General. The Attorney General may remove a Special Counsel for misconduct, dereliction of duty, incapacity, conflict of interest, or for other good cause, including violation of Departmental policies. The Attorney General shall inform the Special Counsel in writing of the specific reason for his or her removal.
     
    #502 JeffB, May 17, 2017
    Last edited: May 17, 2017
  3. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    Yep, the Russians are not meddlers by nature.
     
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  4. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    It's broad enough. I don't see an attempt to limit the investigation. In fact, the scope allowed is broader than I expected when it became clear to me that something like this was coming down the pike.

    Be happy! Dance around the room! This is seriously good news. Big business in Russia is so closely connected to Putin's regime as to make no difference. I don't think the wording used will ruffle Mueller's feathers one bit.
     
  5. adoo

    adoo Member

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    in my haste, i forgot to say

    only after issuing subpoena to Trump to release his tax returns for the past 20 years​
     
  6. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    I'd preferred them to spell it out rather than leave it to discretion to the AG who is essentially a Trump employee. Trump is lawyer'ed up in all matters and he knows what there is to find I'm sure but we'll see how it develops. The tax returns must also be part of this investigation.

    I'm interested in how this came about though because Trump doesn't do anything unless someone with leverage applies pressure. He only does things like this against his own interest when absolutely required to do it.
     
  7. JeffB

    JeffB Contributing Member
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    Supposedly, the administration didn't know about this move until it happened.

    "The White House was not aware of Rosenstein’s decision to appoint Mueller until after the order was signed, according to a justice department official. The news had not appeared to have been shared on Capitol Hill either, with the House intelligence committee saying it had not been informed."
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...estigation-special-counsel-robert-mueller-fbi
     
  8. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    Two days from now Trump will tweet that it was his idea.
     
    No Worries likes this.
  9. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  10. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    I wouldn't worry about the scope. These things can basically go wherever they want.
     
  11. JeffB

    JeffB Contributing Member
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    Thinking about it, I agree with concerns about the scope of the investigation. I think it should be explicitly open to exploring business links as well as financial dealings with Russians whether or not these things are connected to election interference. Not good that Mueller has to get permission from the AG to expand the probe. Hopefully, Mueller will pursue every angle wherever it goes. But that could potentially take years. (Though with Trump, it could just be months.)
     
  12. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    London'sBurning likes this.
  13. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    My understanding is that Mueller has a magic "investigate where ever it leads you" button. Plus... the Sessions has recused himself, so how could he involve himself with the Special Prosecutor?
     
  14. JeffB

    JeffB Contributing Member
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    Yeah, you are correct.

    Sessions should not be in the picture. However, Mueller will have to run certain decisions by the Deputy AG, since Sessions is recused. If the DAG tells Mueller "no", then Mueller has to inform Congress. So I guess Mueller is about as silo'ed as we can hope for.

    The whole can of worms is pretty much open, at this point.
     
  15. Rashmon

    Rashmon Contributing Member

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    You keep telling yourself that...though I have to commend your diligence in avoiding any (f)actual information coming from the dreaded MSM in the last year.
     
  16. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    JeffB likes this.
  17. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Any other day this would be the biggest story. The fact that Ryan said "This is off the record right.... We are all a family here" and then they said it was essentially fake news to WaPo when they said it was going to be released 3 times until they found out that there is actual audio then they told WaPo they take back their 3 previous denials and wanted to instead note that "They were joking".

    Just wow.
     
    FranchiseBlade, joshuaao and JeffB like this.
  18. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    After the last week or so it seems like this Russia/Trump story is starting to go away.

    Time to build a wall, defund the EPA, and lastly move in the future with coal power.
     
  19. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    Where is the connection? I am still waiting for your non-cırcumstantial evidence that proves this conspiracy theory.
     
  20. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    So now we have proof they straight out lie. 1st person too. Even Bobby should be happy.
     
    FranchiseBlade likes this.

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